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Confusion about "hunter-gatherer" and Viking 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:32 pm
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I think there is a lot of confusion about which ethic is more appropriate for men of valor. That Vikings were hunters, not farmers.

The hunter gatherer sows nothing, but seeks to reap from nature's bounty. They live like children. They mostly fight those they deem to be "inferior" foes, who they are sure they can defeat with minimal losses. The concept of "responsibility" is limited to defending their hunting grounds from rivals, expanding where they can, and not over hunting. Organized criminals generally fall into this category.

A farmer oversees the management of some lands, investing in those lands with the expectation that they will be the ones to claim the benefit of those investments. Like a hunter-gatherer, they still must defend their lands, but expansion is more likely to happen by way of purchasing, rather than conquest. In general, anyone in any trade can be thought of as a "farmer". If you make and sell knives, for example, your shop is basically your "farm". You buy materials and make blades, expecting to the one who profits when they are sold.


I think Vikings were more often in the second category. They certainly did raid. But undertakings like Leif Erikson's voyage to "Greenland" were attempts to profit by being industrious. Also when you read about the slaves that were taken in their raids, they were usually put to work on farms, tending herd animals and such.

Essentially, the vikings were practicing animal husbandry even in their violent treatment of other humans. Jarls keeping a herd of weaker people (thralls) as their flock. Not hunting them as prey.

Part of keeping a flock is protecting it from predators. Organized criminals are just predators. It is therefore the role of a Jarl to choose a flock and protect it. The things we are seeing in places like Ukraine and Russia are truly sad, because they are a symptom of an age when all the Jarls have died, or departed.


Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:17 am
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8-j wrote:
I think there is a lot of confusion about which ethic is more appropriate for men of valor. That Vikings were hunters, not farmers.

The hunter gatherer sows nothing, but seeks to reap from nature's bounty. They live like children. They mostly fight those they deem to be "inferior" foes, who they are sure they can defeat with minimal losses. The concept of "responsibility" is limited to defending their hunting grounds from rivals, expanding where they can, and not over hunting. Organized criminals generally fall into this category.

A farmer oversees the management of some lands, investing in those lands with the expectation that they will be the ones to claim the benefit of those investments. Like a hunter-gatherer, they still must defend their lands, but expansion is more likely to happen by way of purchasing, rather than conquest. In general, anyone in any trade can be thought of as a "farmer". If you make and sell knives, for example, your shop is basically your "farm". You buy materials and make blades, expecting to the one who profits when they are sold.


I think Vikings were more often in the second category. They certainly did raid. But undertakings like Leif Erikson's voyage to "Greenland" were attempts to profit by being industrious. Also when you read about the slaves that were taken in their raids, they were usually put to work on farms, tending herd animals and such.

Essentially, the vikings were practicing animal husbandry even in their violent treatment of other humans. Jarls keeping a herd of weaker people (thralls) as their flock. Not hunting them as prey.

Part of keeping a flock is protecting it from predators. Organized criminals are just predators. It is therefore the role of a Jarl to choose a flock and protect it. The things we are seeing in places like Ukraine and Russia are truly sad, because they are a symptom of an age when all the Jarls have died, or departed.


This is an interesting point of view.
I think viking age folk from the north lands were something of a mix between hunter gatherers, who had to be industrious in providing food and shelters. What existed before the vikings? Mere hunter gatherers? Farmers? Probably a mix. The Vikings had to hunt for food and hides, but they also kept livestock. They farmed the land, or rather parts of the northern communities farmed while the warriors went viking. But they likely also knew the local plant life and what was edible, medicinal, etc, and therefore most likely gathered what they could. In the cold north, summers are short. Even here in north Germany, there is a short growing season, so it would have been an essential part of life to gather and hunt what they could, especially in the cold months of the year. Fishing would also have been a practical means of providing food.

I'm not sure I fully understand your reference to the Ukraine and Russia. There are still rulers, and whether the jarls protect their flock or not does not negate the fact that they hold power. In the viking age, the people chose their jarls. If they didn't like the jarl of their tribe, they were free to leave and seek a new jarl who was a better gold giver.


Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:42 pm
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I think the "hunting" period of viking life was a very small portion (and consequently one of the only parts we have records of) of their history. Society in the most early of times required a mix of roles because people were transient. As people learned that the seeds they spit out a year ago in a spot they revisited grew into a berry they could harvest again - well the rest was history. Each region developed independent of each other and during the time of "hunter gatherers" neanderthals and homo-sapiens were not in vivid contact. Much later after those transient seed spitters settled down into farms and society became fixed and cities developed and lumber became a resource that humans harvest regularly. It was not until natural resources started becoming depleted and populations became unmanageable that they decided to venture forth.

By the time vikings got on their long ships you can kind of drop the idea that momma was picking berries with an infant strapped to her breast; while bearded, lion-clothed father was out nabbing swine with a spear. By this time germans entertained a pseudo-feudalism. Also, as mentioned, vikings were not blood thirsty conquerors setting out to show how much of a man they were. Home got a little crowded and germans have a natural wanderlust it seems, so they set off to explore. When they landed on the shores of britany and others for the first time they pretty much wrecked the population the first few times. They found the lands plenty and when word hit home there was easy pickings, the rest followed. Even though the normans would eventually win, the vision of vikings being invaders still persist. They had a superior society with better technology (though positioned in a significantly less inviting climate)

In todays age gender roles are becoming more blurred, but this was only until recently. It is not hard for men to become over-masculine and limit themselves to beast of burden and simpletons beyond complex subtitles. Our lord is known for entertaining a womans magic. Similarly do I also live, as a seidrmann. I do not bear shame for not being hyper masculine, I bear many many qualities of our lord. I am not mistaken for a woman, unless I wished it. I do surround myself with women and understand that men are usually tone deaf when it comes to things even coming close to "magic"

Let me set the record straight for you, there is no life more honorable or valuable than another. Being more masculine does not bring you any closer to achieving an afterlife (we all die disappointing deaths.) I invite you to witness the schematics of Heimdallr. It is many small moving parts that achieves the goal, not one large moving piece.

Our kind claim valor, but cower in the darkness of the corner. It makes me laugh. Valor is not easy. It takes a lot to have inner strength and I have seen the biggest most muscular hyper masculine men cower in the face of judgement.


Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:31 pm
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Very well put baleyg, the idea that all norse were warriors is a silly one (sorry if that offends). Yes there are many famous warriors from the north but the majority of folk lived off the land, farmed, had kids and grew old. You can't develop a rich society purely raiding other cultures, from most historical studies ive read it seems raiding was a symptom of population pressure on scant resources at home. I am sure I also read somewhere that owning a good bit of farmland was a status symbol, raiding helped kill boredom after planting season with crews aiming to return home for harvest time to help bring in the crops (at least this was until relatively late in the period)


Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:44 pm
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On these points:


Quote:
Our lord is known for entertaining a womans magic. Similarly do I also live, as a seidrmann. I do not bear shame for not being hyper masculine, I bear many many qualities of our lord. I am not mistaken for a woman, unless I wished it. I do surround myself with women and understand that men are usually tone deaf when it comes to things even coming close to "magic"


Odinists have no Lords. The gods and goddesses are our brothers and sisters.


Quote:
Let me set the record straight for you, there is no life more honorable or valuable than another.


Most humans eat, breed, copulate, defecate, and die. In the Odin Brotherhood, we reach higher

Quote:
Our kind claim valor, but cower in the darkness of the corner. It makes me laugh
.

Outsiders, as this person is, misunderstand secrecy.

We, like Odin, think in terms of centuries. Our secrecy is designed to protect the lore.

Of course, today you may feel safe in the West, but the wars are coming:

Sura 47 of the Koran orders the beheading of the pagans.

We do not fear Islam, but thanks to us --and our secrecy-- Odinism can never die.


Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:16 am
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Quote:
Odinists have no Lords. The gods and goddesses are our brothers and sisters.


I seek to cause intentional blasphemy while also being easy to understand by those who must permanently think in these terms due to a misleading upbringing. To say we have no lords might be a stretch, as evidence of "our" practices and conversation and beliefs suggests otherwise.

Odin is my lord, I feel him in my blood. His genetics have marked my life. I know what wotan is to me.

I dont need anything more to know my pathway.

Quote:
Most humans eat, breed, copulate, defecate, and die. In the Odin Brotherhood, we reach higher


I would be encouraged to see more evidence of this happening within "our" ranks. Also since "we" are a brotherhood of centuries it would seem copulation and death have been "our" main recorded feat. Certainly this website and it's members have not been here for centuries. We must conform to new ways if we are to continue to adapt, if you think centuries ahead as you claim. Do not fear change, or those new who will be left to bear your memory.

You can call me an outsider, but would a wanderer come as no less?

It is also similarly difficult to discredit an individual who claims little and muses much. Since we have no lords you must realize your dogma similarly can not apply. If we are a horde as you suggest, you must allow your ideas to clash with mine. You can not devalue my contribution based on your perspective tyranny and dogma being "our" lord - then turn around and tell me we are all brothers.

I can only smile at your claim that I misunderstand secrecy. I understand secrecy completely, hence me mocking someone who is valuing hyper-masculine straight-forward thinking view of life. You forget it is I who most often discuss the priority of subtlety. You have called me an outsider, yet have coincidentally been the one to invite me and groom me for this stage - only to attempt to dim the lights. You have blessed me with my title.

Alea iacta est

Secrecy does not lie in never being found, but being seen and not being recognized.

Also, death comes to all so it is difficult for me to be threatened by its presence. I have held bodies that have turned cold and similarly been in a state of death myself. I understand death. It is much easier than life. It is from that knowledge of death I can conclude with all certainty that none deserve it and that because we all die disgracefully none are more deserving of life than others. There is being secret and then there is being in a coma - it is beyond obvious that we are hanging on by a thread. In fact, If it weren't for us "outsiders" this organization would become so secret as to not exist anymore (as it has fallen many times and you have picked it up from the mud, dusted it off and pretended like it's always been on the fireplace)

In fact, what is more popular

Also anyone who is still worried about terrorists is quite subtlety talking about their distaste for the often friendly social refugees (let's be clear these guys aren't beheading anyone) disrupting your preferred gene pool and out preforming on the job market.

If it it were up to me, I would colonize a new planet. That is something worth "reaching higher for"

Dont take me for an enemy, I believe in nothing else but our values. It is good that I am challenged, but similarity you should not take what I say personally either. It is as you say we are all brothers. We all need to be here, not as individual "outsiders" but as a unit if we ever hope to pull ourselves by the bootstraps and become the authoritative source of this religion.

You say we have no lords but what is hyper popular are these god cults, which have memberships which swell ours and actual organization with tax identification. Prisoners have more claim to the gods than the sons of odin and sigmund, ext. We need to be challenged.


Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:41 am
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Baleyg wrote:
Quote:
Odinists have no Lords. The gods and goddesses are our brothers and sisters.


I seek to cause intentional blasphemy while also being easy to understand by those who must permanently think in these terms due to a misleading upbringing. To say we have no lords might be a stretch, as evidence of "our" practices and conversation and beliefs suggests otherwise.

Odin is my lord, I feel him in my blood. His genetics have marked my life. I know what wotan is to me.

I dont need anything more to know my pathway.

Quote:
Most humans eat, breed, copulate, defecate, and die. In the Odin Brotherhood, we reach higher


I would be encouraged to see more evidence of this happening within "our" ranks. Also since "we" are a brotherhood of centuries it would seem copulation and death have been "our" main recorded feat. Certainly this website and it's members have not been here for centuries. We must conform to new ways if we are to continue to adapt, if you think centuries ahead as you claim. Do not fear change, or those new who will be left to bear your memory.

You can call me an outsider, but would a wanderer come as no less?

It is also similarly difficult to discredit an individual who claims little and muses much. Since we have no lords you must realize your dogma similarly can not apply. If we are a horde as you suggest, you must allow your ideas to clash with mine. You can not devalue my contribution based on your perspective tyranny and dogma being "our" lord - then turn around and tell me we are all brothers.

I can only smile at your claim that I misunderstand secrecy. I understand secrecy completely, hence me mocking someone who is valuing hyper-masculine straight-forward thinking view of life. You forget it is I who most often discuss the priority of subtlety. You have called me an outsider, yet have coincidentally been the one to invite me and groom me for this stage - only to attempt to dim the lights. You have blessed me with my title.

Alea iacta est

Secrecy does not lie in never being found, but being seen and not being recognized.

Also, death comes to all so it is difficult for me to be threatened by its presence. I have held bodies that have turned cold and similarly been in a state of death myself. I understand death. It is much easier than life. It is from that knowledge of death I can conclude with all certainty that none deserve it and that because we all die disgracefully none are more deserving of life than others. There is being secret and then there is being in a coma - it is beyond obvious that we are hanging on by a thread. In fact, If it weren't for us "outsiders" this organization would become so secret as to not exist anymore (as it has fallen many times and you have picked it up from the mud, dusted it off and pretended like it's always been on the fireplace)

In fact, what is more popular

Also anyone who is still worried about terrorists is quite subtlety talking about their distaste for the often friendly social refugees (let's be clear these guys aren't beheading anyone) disrupting your preferred gene pool and out preforming on the job market.

If it it were up to me, I would colonize a new planet. That is something worth "reaching higher for"

Dont take me for an enemy, I believe in nothing else but our values. It is good that I am challenged, but similarity you should not take what I say personally either. It is as you say we are all brothers. We all need to be here, not as individual "outsiders" but as a unit if we ever hope to pull ourselves by the bootstraps and become the authoritative source of this religion.

You say we have no lords but what is hyper popular are these god cults, which have memberships which swell ours and actual organization with tax identification. Prisoners have more claim to the gods than the sons of odin and sigmund, ext. We need to be challenged.


Baleyg, there are times when you write something so far out there that just makes me shake my head, then there are other times where you point out something that really needed to be said which no one else has thought of or dared to say.
I have highlighted the points you made which really resonate with me.
Your point about "lords", I have to agree with you, that "we" treat our gods not as brothers and sisters,it as lords, someone we seek eagerly to please, like dogs hoping for a word of praise from out masters. Personally, this doesn't not really apply to me, despite being raised in the Christian cult, or perhaps as a result of that, as I want no master and rebellion against any who would try to claim authority over me. I respect and honour the elder kin, just as I would my ancestors. It is in a more universal context unless a personal familiarity has been established. But to say that any of us do not put the gods on a pedestal would be very much inaccurate. We do not treat our gods like brothers and sisters, with whom we squabble and see as equals. Who here sees themselves as equal to the gods? Doubtful that anyone does, or else they would not revere those gods.

As for the effectiveness of the Odin Brotherhood, I certainly have no idea if there is any organization behind the scenes who we are not privy to, but I also cannot say that I see any great accomplishments being made for the old ways by some hidden hand. Secrecy does not mean one does not effect change and progress. It is as baleyg stated: in being seen but not recognized. By having a marked impact, which cannot be traced back to the source. If the OB is not making an impact in the world, then it is a pointless society. Who are you preserving the lore for? If there is any lore that only the OB possesses, and it is only bestowed upon a small few, then it will soon be lost if one thinks in terms of centuries.
Also, we see a website for the OB and this forum, with literature that is promoted as representing the ideas of the brotherhood, and claims that membership is obtained by self initiation and that there is no leadership. If any of this is to be believed, then who is anyone to call another an outsider, especially over an anonymous forum. Can you see who has the marks and who doesn't? If it really is a society of equals without leaders, and there is no organization, then I must conclude that it is highly unlikely that the OB is in possession of any secret, protected lore, and also incapable of doing anything of value whatsoever.
If that is the case, perhaps it is high time someone came along and took the bull by the horns and pushed the brotherhood to reach for something more than pointless obscurity.
If indeed there is actual organization behind the scenes, then what is the point of the website and forum which draws in those who are seeking wisdom and enlightenment, and filling our heads with the prospect of initiation if there is never any way to take the next step into deeper layers of initiation? Why bother, if we will always be nothing more than outsiders? Then you may as well just shut down the site and forum, and close the doors, and revel in your shroud of secrecy. Let the world think you do not exist. Otherwise, why not be clever, and use this forum and other platforms as a way to scout out fresh blood to swell your ranks. That is the way to power and influence. Not in being so exclusive that there is no way in.

And baleyg is quite right: "We" need to be challenged, whether one is Odin Brotherhood, or a solitary Ásatrúer. We need to crawl out from the rotting wood we've been hiding under and take back our heritage, our cultures, our homelands. Hel, just do anything worthwhile, rather than merely sitting behind a keyboard congratulating ourselves for our mediocrity!
If the "official brotherhood" will not do it, then maybe we "outsiders" must.
I came to the brotherhood seeking a way to be useful, so bring our ways out of the desert of obscurity and into the light. That does not mean we must reveal our identity, or even reveal the organization behind that effort. Baleyg may not take issue with the refugee situation and the preservation of our ethnic tribes, but owe of us seeing the damaging impacts it is having on an already weak European society, we see the validity in preserving and reviving what is being lost. But I see multiculturalism as a threat to all indigenous peoples everywhere. After it has finished with the west, it will go after every other remaining culture in the world until there is nothing left, no identity, no roots.
As a religion, we are not even taken seriously in the world, barely even acknowledged, and our reputations smeared by propaganda that accuses Odinism of being a front for white supremacy, which is absurd. Though we may profess to strive for greatness, it is not to say that we all think other ethnic groups are inherently inferior. But that does not mean we should fall victim to political correctness.
What do you all stand for? What do you value? To whom or to what do you swear your allegiance? Is it blood, kin? Tribe? Nation? Race? Something else entirely?
The other "god cults", to borrow baleyg's words, have clearly defined what they are about, and what they stand for. The Jews are loyal only to their own, and they are an ethnic tribe, despite all their propaganda that race does not exist and that it is not worth preserving — say one thing but do another.
The Muslims are not so picky about race, just like the Christians, but they would use their power in numbers to eradicate all other religions and gods in the world, if they had it their way. And as they will use any tool given to them, they will use population displacement to their advantage.
The Vatican hoards up the worlds history in its vaults, forever preventing us from knowing the truth, as baleyg correctly pointed out in another thread. What right did the Catholic church have to seize the intellectual property of every indigenous population they invaded? What right do they have to keep it? It should all be taken back for all the people it was stolen from!
What right does Christianity have to appropriate our age old traditions and delude generations of coerced pagans into believing that these are Christian traditions?
How many other issues are there that are worth addressing? How many other ways might we be a force of good in the world? Or should we continue on as the useless eaters the global "elite" have declared humankind to be?


Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:45 pm
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Baleyg wrote:
Odin is my lord, I feel him in my blood. His genetics have marked my life. I know what wotan is to me.


I agree that the gods are far from our equals in terms of quantifiable traits, but there is another factor one must keep in mind. An obese man and an Olympic runner are far from equals, but the one quality they both can be equal in regardless of their current situation is in "effort". An obese man will find just as much hardship running down the block as the Olympian will running a score of miles. Both are giving equal effort and dedication in pursuit of their goal.

Also, I disagree with the concept that a man must be born of the genetics of the Northern tribes in order to truly be an Odinist. Odin has accepted Jotunn to be by his side, I needless doubt that he would discriminate against a man with all the qualities of an Odinist but without the genetics of one.

Baleyg wrote:
Secrecy does not lie in never being found, but being seen and not being recognized.


I could not agree more with this. I have often questioned in the past how the secrecy of Odinism seems more like complacent passivity. However, I am far from qualified to be an Odinist. I have met many men with your confidence and virtue who believe in wildly different ideas of the gods and of the lore. If the Odin Brotherhood exists, and it's strict qualifications are to exclude all of those who are not truly Odinists (such as the men like you with other beliefs), then it is not without understanding that they keep themselves in completely shrouded secrecy. They only need those who are truly Odinists, as decided upon by Heimdallr the Vigilant. If acting here and now does not contribute to their goals, why act?

Baleyg wrote:
If it weren't for us "outsiders" this organization would become so secret as to not exist anymore (as it has fallen many times and you have picked it up from the mud, dusted it off and pretended like it's always been on the fireplace)


These forums are not a congregation for OB members. It is for practically anyone who wishes to come and discuss things related to Odinism. These forums have served me a great deal in transforming myself for the better. People like Tyrienne and Tyrsman have challenged my beliefs and indirectly pushed me to work towards achieving virtue and becoming something more than what I am. These forums are simply one of the steps on a grand staircase.

Baleyg wrote:
Dont take me for an enemy, I believe in nothing else but our values. It is good that I am challenged, but similarity you should not take what I say personally either. It is as you say we are all brothers.


You're an image on my laptop with some text next to it. I do not take things personally from pictures and text, I just speak with an equal amount of passion and care as something I take personally. It is better we speak from the top of the mind rather than sit here and weave our words perfectly for every situation, because doing so is like setting up the dummy's exactly where you want them for target practice, it serves no practical use in the real world.

Baleyg wrote:
We all need to be here, not as individual "outsiders" but as a unit if we ever hope to pull ourselves by the bootstraps and become the authoritative source of this religion.


Why the Odin Brotherhood though? If they are in control of their affairs, are getting the members that are truly qualified as decided upon by Heimdallr, and are achieving their goals even while masked entirely by secrecy, then why would they bother? There is nothing stopping even the true members of the OB from going out and starting a separate organization that seeks to become an authoritative source of this 'religion'. There isn't anything stopping you either.

Baleyg wrote:
We need to be challenged.


This is a forum board. If anyone here wants to be a real Odinist, they must be challenged indeed, but this forum board is not the Odin Brotherhood. The real Odinists have already been challenged, and continue to face challenges to this day.


Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:15 pm
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Fand, I touched on many similar points last year as part of my reaction to a new member who burst onto the forum making open claims of membership and authoritative statements about the nature of the OB. I perceived responses to be mostly ho-humming and mealy-mouthing about how he was the "Trv OB" if he said he was, and secrecy didn't really mean secrecy.

How was it possible to be a "conspiracy of equals" without hierarchy or structure due to the self-initiatory nature of the society, and at the same time have definitive values/practices/beliefs and leave secrecy to the whims of the individual members? Especially when after reading a large number of posts it seems that there are at times glaring contradictions between the OB books/literature, statements by OB forum administration and assertions by individual members. Not only is the definition of secret society violated but it is EXTREMELY vulnerable to co-option and subversion.

Sure, in larger urban centers there are possibilities like the fabled library scenario, albeit small unless with active/passive recruitment or conspicuous presentation and circumstance of seemingly legendary wyrd.

As I tried to make clear last time, this is not a knock on the OB. This is serious consideration given as any member, prospect or honest individual probably should.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:46 pm
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StigandrMelrakki wrote:
Fand, I touched on many similar points last year as part of my reaction to a new member who burst onto the forum making open claims of membership and authoritative statements about the nature of the OB. I perceived responses to be mostly ho-humming and mealy-mouthing about how he was the "Trv OB" if he said he was, and secrecy didn't really mean secrecy.

How was it possible to be a "conspiracy of equals" without hierarchy or structure due to the self-initiatory nature of the society, and at the same time have definitive values/practices/beliefs and leave secrecy to the whims of the individual members? Especially when after reading a large number of posts it seems that there are at times glaring contradictions between the OB books/literature, statements by OB forum administration and assertions by individual members. Not only is the definition of secret society violated but it is EXTREMELY vulnerable to co-option and subversion.

Sure, in larger urban centers there are possibilities like the fabled library scenario, albeit small unless with active/passive recruitment or conspicuous presentation and circumstance of seemingly legendary wyrd.

As I tried to make clear last time, this is not a knock on the OB. This is serious consideration given as any member, prospect or honest individual probably should.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


I agree with you completely. I've wondered if the literature and self initiation is put out just to weed out prospective members, to see who makes the cut for the next step. If that is the case, then of course outsiders won't know about it, due to secrecy. However, if there is no hierarchy, then here really is nothing, and the only secrecy is in member identity, which makes it all quite pointless. Assuming this is it, then like you said, it is vulnerable to being coopted, and maybe even deserves to be.
Clearly, someone funds the OB website and forum, as there are no ads and no registration fees, so there must be some hidden purpose to it all. Someone runs this forum for a reason, and begs the question: is it to scope out potential recruits to something much bigger than we are told, or is there a nefarious purpose to it? I would hope t is the first. Or maybe this is all just an elaborate marketing scheme to sell books. Let it appear there is a secret brotherhood, write up some literature claiming it comes straight from the source, having a website and forum to make it all look legit, and wham! Instant book sales! Haha!
Well, probably not the case, but who knows. These days nothing surprises me.
And yes, we should be inquisitive and consider things, rather than just accepting whatever we hear blindly and without thinking for ourselves. ;)


Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:20 pm
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I have yet to be confronted and am allowed to rant freely.

I feel a connection with Wotan that does not need another human to verify.

Having been misled before, I can easily see what is dogma or fantasy and what is truly worth musing. I dont believe in an invisible man in the sky at all. I believe in flesh, blood and brains. We are all mechanical constructs that may one day be more. I mean let's be real we are going to **** here and think our mystical voodoo crap isn't as horse **** as the next belief system?

If odinism is only to be trusted to a certain few, why perpetuate it at all? Why even continue, just to stagnate like a stale Cheetos swept in the corner of the frat house of world religions. This is not something you can hide or perpetuate or decide who is integrated. We have all come here thirsty and I have set out cups on the table that my ranting and spittle might fill one enough to rouse one to drink if they are thirsty enough.

I encourage all to entertain sufficient skepticism and doubt - these actions will lead you to my camp.

This website, could be a trap. A fantasy. A wish. Someone who lives their own life and does nothing but here has a seat of power. For me, this website is a brotherhood - which does not need to be validated by the originator at all. I feel more concerned about what the most common and uninitiated members of this organization

Exiling me is unnecessary and would only prove the fear to my claim.

We all came to this forum individually with a distinct purpose and our sense of community which we have all helped to create has kept us here.

Obviously there is a rift. People make some bold claims and tend to believe the silliest of things. I come to you as no more than a pilgrim, come to seduce you passionately with my subtle ways.

I am willing to see a new future, based on the past. I am no lord, I am fire-eye brother to all brothers. I do not need to you qualify yourself or have any deal of great belief. My ways are easy and they are wise and they are subtle. Those who do not resent me for my ambition, I am eager to advise in the great traditions of our people unknown to literature but which still burns in my heart. I have been groomed long for this position (unknowingly)

There are great skeptics here and many I would be honored to field service for and call brother.


Last edited by Baleyg on Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:10 am
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Fand wrote:
I agree with you completely. I've wondered if the literature and self initiation is put out just to weed out prospective members, to see who makes the cut for the next step. If that is the case, then of course outsiders won't know about it, due to secrecy. However, if there is no hierarchy, then here really is nothing, and the only secrecy is in member identity, which makes it all quite pointless. Assuming this is it, then like you said, it is vulnerable to being coopted, and maybe even deserves to be.
Clearly, someone funds the OB website and forum, as there are no ads and no registration fees, so there must be some hidden purpose to it all. Someone runs this forum for a reason, and begs the question: is it to scope out potential recruits to something much bigger than we are told, or is there a nefarious purpose to it? I would hope t is the first. Or maybe this is all just an elaborate marketing scheme to sell books. Let it appear there is a secret brotherhood, write up some literature claiming it comes straight from the source, having a website and forum to make it all look legit, and wham! Instant book sales! Haha!
Well, probably not the case, but who knows. These days nothing surprises me.
And yes, we should be inquisitive and consider things, rather than just accepting whatever we hear blindly and without thinking for ourselves. ;)


I think we are on similar wavelengths. I will say, I have picked up on a few "tells" or perhaps intentional inclusions in the various literature. Things I think have given me some insight on some of these points. Also, given a little thought there are only so many explanations for some of the things you touched on. There are also a number of interesting aspects about the forum itself that I think raise a number of questions or are perhaps allusions, instead. I have also found other... anomalies searching around the forum. I don't necessarily mean anything negative or positive in particular.

I know that sounds rather ambiguous, intentionally so. I would discuss with some individuals but alas, that is not an option...

Unfortunately, I think we have completely hijacked the thread.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:42 am
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Posts: 685
StigandrMelrakki wrote:
Fand wrote:
I agree with you completely. I've wondered if the literature and self initiation is put out just to weed out prospective members, to see who makes the cut for the next step. If that is the case, then of course outsiders won't know about it, due to secrecy. However, if there is no hierarchy, then here really is nothing, and the only secrecy is in member identity, which makes it all quite pointless. Assuming this is it, then like you said, it is vulnerable to being coopted, and maybe even deserves to be.
Clearly, someone funds the OB website and forum, as there are no ads and no registration fees, so there must be some hidden purpose to it all. Someone runs this forum for a reason, and begs the question: is it to scope out potential recruits to something much bigger than we are told, or is there a nefarious purpose to it? I would hope t is the first. Or maybe this is all just an elaborate marketing scheme to sell books. Let it appear there is a secret brotherhood, write up some literature claiming it comes straight from the source, having a website and forum to make it all look legit, and wham! Instant book sales! Haha!
Well, probably not the case, but who knows. These days nothing surprises me.
And yes, we should be inquisitive and consider things, rather than just accepting whatever we hear blindly and without thinking for ourselves. ;)


I think we are on similar wavelengths. I will say, I have picked up on a few "tells" or perhaps intentional inclusions in the various literature. Things I think have given me some insight on some of these points. Also, given a little thought there are only so many explanations for some of the things you touched on. There are also a number of interesting aspects about the forum itself that I think raise a number of questions or are perhaps allusions, instead. I have also found other... anomalies searching around the forum. I don't necessarily mean anything negative or positive in particular.

I know that sounds rather ambiguous, intentionally so. I would discuss with some individuals but alas, that is not an option...

Unfortunately, I think we have completely hijacked the thread.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox

and so the wheels turn ... I have seen and noted the tells also ... perhaps you are both right? Or perhaps you are both wrong? ... Stormr


Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:51 am
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Posts: 378
Quote:
Baleyg, there are times when you write something so far out there that just makes me shake my head, then there are other times where you point out something that really needed to be said which no one else has thought of or dared to say.


Like any good code I am stricken with insurmountable anomalies in my behavior that lead to superfluous information I know that the keenest of observers will find no difficulty in shaking their head through. When I was younger I was not only forced but convinced that my salvation was in reading the bible. I studied it beyond measure and certainly those intent on figuring me out can piece together that I borrow a lot from the mystisism I claim not to believe in. It's a delicate balance I blend, to be entirely certainly uncertain. As the moon waxes and wanes so too, seemingly, do my effects on the world have impact. There are bonds I cannot deny with any measure of reason or science or denial. When the wind flows against my barren face, from the east which was once a long time ago the home of those who bore me.

(aside: the reason I do not concern myself with the topic of immigration in europe is three-fold. Firstly, I believe in my own version of the ubermensch which concerns itself with 100% racial integration based on the assumption that we are all beyond mixed and aggregated. Secondly, Europe should gag when it recalls its so very recent experiment with occupying foreign territories. Thirdly our home has long been violated by the romans and I would never suppose to call her a virgin land again. It is time to move on.)

Indeed I am only mortal, but I can finally say I can see the path to more. I am no longer lost. Though I have been blinded, it is now that I only have begun to see - as if a new born babe. My effort here, as mentioned, is seduction. I realize completely the effort required - which depends entirely on critical thinkers like you, Fand. It didn't take me long to realize what this forum was and certainly it was not the fairy tales that kept me here. There are other organizations with more claim to what we are and it angers me. To be called an outsider - angers me. Do you really know my fathers fathers so well? Are you quite certain your heritage doesn't have a single member not victim to the latin conspiracy?

Fand: Your stance impresses me and I was hoping my boldness would have the impact that it did. I am beyond enthused and have been feeling the gears ticking louder and louder for some time now. You might realize I openly invite criticism from my brothers, truly this is the path. I do not offer promises and secrets I cannot substantiate. I do not try to mystify you with fantasies. I would hope you more intelligent than to read words and accept them immediately. I am real. My scar is real, the fire burned bright. My screams silenced the night. The sky gave me a gift which is beyond your secrets, that you could never deny (I say as humbly as I can.) Everything about me is so obvious that no one would ever mistake me for the shifty-eyed even looking and speaking to me.

Quote:
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it.


Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:32 am
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Norse Storm wrote:
StigandrMelrakki wrote:
Fand wrote:
I agree with you completely. I've wondered if the literature and self initiation is put out just to weed out prospective members, to see who makes the cut for the next step. If that is the case, then of course outsiders won't know about it, due to secrecy. However, if there is no hierarchy, then here really is nothing, and the only secrecy is in member identity, which makes it all quite pointless. Assuming this is it, then like you said, it is vulnerable to being coopted, and maybe even deserves to be.
Clearly, someone funds the OB website and forum, as there are no ads and no registration fees, so there must be some hidden purpose to it all. Someone runs this forum for a reason, and begs the question: is it to scope out potential recruits to something much bigger than we are told, or is there a nefarious purpose to it? I would hope t is the first. Or maybe this is all just an elaborate marketing scheme to sell books. Let it appear there is a secret brotherhood, write up some literature claiming it comes straight from the source, having a website and forum to make it all look legit, and wham! Instant book sales! Haha!
Well, probably not the case, but who knows. These days nothing surprises me.
And yes, we should be inquisitive and consider things, rather than just accepting whatever we hear blindly and without thinking for ourselves. ;)


I think we are on similar wavelengths. I will say, I have picked up on a few "tells" or perhaps intentional inclusions in the various literature. Things I think have given me some insight on some of these points. Also, given a little thought there are only so many explanations for some of the things you touched on. There are also a number of interesting aspects about the forum itself that I think raise a number of questions or are perhaps allusions, instead. I have also found other... anomalies searching around the forum. I don't necessarily mean anything negative or positive in particular.

I know that sounds rather ambiguous, intentionally so. I would discuss with some individuals but alas, that is not an option...

Unfortunately, I think we have completely hijacked the thread.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox

and so the wheels turn ... I have seen and noted the tells also ... perhaps you are both right? Or perhaps you are both wrong? ... Stormr


Haha! Yes, we have hijacked it. This discussion would be better placed on the Odin brotherhood identity thread. ;)
I am curious what anomalies you have discovered... It must have been a Christian priest who said curiosity killed the cat. ;p I have not perused too deeply into older content on the forum. When I first discovered the OB I scanned through topics the stood out as interesting to me. It has also been a while since I read the suggested literature. It's probably not a bad idea to go through it all again. Sometimes, coming back to something and reading it for the second time, you notice things you may have previously missed or simply didn't appreciate at the time.


Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:23 am
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Baleyg wrote:

Quote:
I feel a connection with Wotan that does not need another human to verify.

Having been misled before, I can easily see what is dogma or fantasy and what is truly worth musing. I dont believe in an invisible man in the sky at all. I believe in flesh, blood and brains. We are all mechanical constructs that may one day be more. I mean let's be real we are going to **** here and think our mystical voodoo crap isn't as horse **** as the next belief system?


Firstly, anyone who would have you believe that another human must validate your connection to the gods/spiritual enlightenment is not to be trusted.
Secondly, I can relate to your experience of being misled and falling prey to dogma. I was having a social/political discussion with some people on a, well, let's say conspiracy website, about people who are "awake" versus brainwashed. I pointed out that from my perspective it seems as though the few who awake to the illusions of the world and see through the lies and the shroud of secrecy were never actually asleep. They were born awake, and just lacking the information needed to make an assessment of the realities in which we live. Of course, none of us will ever have all the answers and truths, but at least we are asking questions and seeking the truths no matter how bitter. As for the masses of human cattle, I do not believe they have the capacity to ever wake up from the matrix. They are a lost cause.
Additionally, there are certain rules which seem to always hold true. One being that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. I have reason to believe that we are more than mere biological machines. That there is a spiritual side to life I am convinced. There is a soul, and in this I tend to agree with the eastern philosophy on such things: body, mind and soul. The bossy is the vessel through which the soul manifests. The mind is largely dependent upon the experiences in the material world and is like a skin which is shed when the body dies and falls away. The soul is that which remains pure, and when the body and all its attachments fall away, the soul will implant into a new form.
However, that is not to say that I am convinced that all humans are beings complete with a soul. I often wonder if these hive minded masses are not simply empty vessels, highly sophisticated machinery of sorts which are programmed from day one on how to appear as sentient beings. I have encountered animals/beasts with more consciousness than many of the masses. If that is the case, it would explain why those small few of us who are fully conscious are different from the rest. We are the true sentient beings on the planet, regardless of race or cultural upbringing.

That brings me to my next point, in response to a separate comment from you. I'd like to clarify my stance on race, in particular. I do not, nor have I ever been of the opinion that one race is superior to another. There are superior human beings, to be sure, and while one race may possibly appear to put forth more such superior beings, that is by no means justification for the belief that such a race is superior.
When I speak of preservation of ones ethnic heritage, I acknowledge the right and even the importance for all races to do likewise. Only by preserving the unique racial groups do we truly cultivate an ethnically diverse world. And if for no other reason than the mere beauty that such variety offers, then so be it. That is a valid enough reason for me. You say that all races are irrevocably mixed, but I do not see that. There is of course some mixing, and more so with some individuals than with others. The rather small genetic contributions from outside races into another mostly homogeneous race is hardly damaging to the ethnic purity. In fact, it may very well come with benefits. It is not too late, in my opinion, to preserve our various racial groups, and I don't see how a global population of completely mixed single race could be beneficial. To argue my point, I direct your attention to nature. A biodiverse eco system is always stronger and superior to a monoculture. We see great susceptibility in agriculture where biodiversity has been largely eliminated. Disease and pests become grave problems. Be careful that your view of the ubermensch as one mixed race does not come from the very psychopaths who rule our world, for that is precisely their agenda. Anything pushed by the powers that be should be resisted. The fact that they demonize racial purity, particularly for Caucasians, is serious cause for concern. There is a reason Caucasians are singled out as the first for elimination. They don't even want our genetics to be greatly mixed into the planned one race. Why? That is what I'd very much like to know. This touches on the subject of where the "white" race comes from. I suspect our race has a distant ancestor that was either another humanoid which is not directly shared by the other races, or an extraterrestrial/otherworldly ancestor. This is mere speculation, of course, and all I know for sure is that we have a greater percentage of Neanderthal genetic material than any other race. Also, Neanderthals were not the mere primitive ape man we have been led to believe. Archaeological finds have confirmed they were actually quite advanced, even building ships and sailing the seas. A large part of why they became extinct was due to havinlow birth rates (sound familiar), and combined with mixing with humans, they were also outgrew by humans. Add to that the conflicts which would have occurred between opposing tribes of humans and Neanderthals, it's not hard to imagine how over time, their numbers would have greatly fallen into decline. The same is now happening to Caucasians on a global scale. There are other racial groups suffering the same problems. I believe the Japanese are one such group. Of course, being of northwestern European descent, I loom at all this rather subjectively, but I also consider it from an objective perspective. Whatever dark deeds the old continent is guilty of does not negate the contributions it has made to the world. It was Europeans who first advanced technology beyond anything yet seen in our known, recorded world history. Since then, there have been plenty of contributions from the other racial groups, but would they have progressed so far by this time had it not been for Europeans planting the seeds of knowledge? Again, I am not implying superiority of any particular race. All have something to offer the world.
As for the Latin conspiracy, much of the world has fallen victim to its vampiric ways, but so long as there is a spark of life in the descendants of the indigenous folk of the world tribes, then all is not lost. Just as you feel certain connections to a timeless wisdom and to Wotan, so can we all find and connect with that sacred well of wisdom and find ourselves again. This is what I advocate, for all derives of the world. To take back our unique heritages, to build up our cultural identities anew. It needs not be an exact replica of the skeletons of the past, but should honour the past while finding ourselves in the present and growing towards the future. I would encourage those superior individuals of all races to strive for this purpose, and to revive the spirit of their folk! If you are mixed, do not dispair. It matters not. Look inside, and find the roots, sense how deep they reach and draw from that primordial spring. From the mixed races will arise a new race, a new culture, which will mature with time like a fine wine. Has it been any different for any race? For any culture? We are all hybrids, made up of the same building blocks in various ratios and arrangements, and this is what needs to be cultivated. The very fact that z-i-o-n-i-s-t-s and tptb would see us all reduced to one bland and boring race of hive minded slaves is all the more reason to strive relentlessly towards true racial diversity, by building towards homogeneous communities, states, nations, or at the very least advocating for a Weltanschauung that encourages procreation within ones own racial group, even if one lives in a multicultural city or state. Again, to reiterate, occasional racial mixing is not the issue here. It is only the programming that promotes such mixing en masse.

Quote:
If odinism is only to be trusted to a certain few, why perpetuate it at all? Why even continue, just to stagnate like a stale Cheetos swept in the corner of the frat house of world religions. This is not something you can hide or perpetuate or decide who is integrated. We have all come here thirsty and I have set out cups on the table that my ranting and spittle might fill one enough to rouse one to drink if they are thirsty enough.


I couldn't agree more. We are all seekers of wisdom and knowledge, with a passion for preserving what remains of our heritage and cultivating those seeds that they might grow into a mighty forest!

Quote:
I encourage all to entertain sufficient skepticism and doubt - these actions will lead you to my camp.


The moment one ceases to question is the moment one becomes stagnant.

Quote:
This website, could be a trap. A fantasy. A wish. Someone who lives their own life and does nothing but here has a seat of power. For me, this website is a brotherhood - which does not need to be validated by the originator at all. I feel more concerned about what the most common and uninitiated members of this organization

Exiling me is unnecessary and would only prove the fear to my claim.


Good point. While many if not all of us on this forum may never be privy to the more intimate details of the official OB, to say that we who have dug into this forum are outsiders is not entirely accurate. We are a sort of disorganized brotherhood of our own, in that we come here to share ideas and speculate on much pertaining to Odinism. We may not be the Odin brotherhood, but we are comrades all the same, and likely doing more to keep Odinism alive and well than the official brotherhood.

Quote:
We all came to this forum individually with a distinct purpose and our sense of community which we have all helped to create has kept us here.


True.

Quote:
Obviously there is a rift. People make some bold claims and tend to believe the silliest of things. I come to you as no more than a pilgrim, come to seduce you passionately with my subtle ways.

I am willing to see a new future, based on the past. I am no lord, I am fire-eye brother to all brothers. I do not need to you qualify yourself or have any deal of great belief. My ways are easy and they are wise and they are subtle. Those who do not resent me for my ambition, I am eager to advise in the great traditions of our people unknown to literature but which still burns in my heart. I have been groomed long for this position (unknowingly)

There are great skeptics here and many I would be honored to field service for and call brother.


As is usually the case with you, you make some rather bizarre statements, but riddled with food for thought. I would be grateful if you would speak more plainly. State bluntly and matter of factly just what you are proposing, if anything, that others may act according to their own judgment. It seems to me that you are suggesting organizing for ourselves, but perhaps I am reading too much into your words.


Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:29 am
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Baleyg wrote:
Quote:
Baleyg, there are times when you write something so far out there that just makes me shake my head, then there are other times where you point out something that really needed to be said which no one else has thought of or dared to say.


Like any good code I am stricken with insurmountable anomalies in my behavior that lead to superfluous information I know that the keenest of observers will find no difficulty in shaking their head through. When I was younger I was not only forced but convinced that my salvation was in reading the bible. I studied it beyond measure and certainly those intent on figuring me out can piece together that I borrow a lot from the mystisism I claim not to believe in. It's a delicate balance I blend, to be entirely certainly uncertain. As the moon waxes and wanes so too, seemingly, do my effects on the world have impact. There are bonds I cannot deny with any measure of reason or science or denial. When the wind flows against my barren face, from the east which was once a long time ago the home of those who bore me.

(aside: the reason I do not concern myself with the topic of immigration in europe is three-fold. Firstly, I believe in my own version of the ubermensch which concerns itself with 100% racial integration based on the assumption that we are all beyond mixed and aggregated. Secondly, Europe should gag when it recalls its so very recent experiment with occupying foreign territories. Thirdly our home has long been violated by the romans and I would never suppose to call her a virgin land again. It is time to move on.)

Indeed I am only mortal, but I can finally say I can see the path to more. I am no longer lost. Though I have been blinded, it is now that I only have begun to see - as if a new born babe. My effort here, as mentioned, is seduction. I realize completely the effort required - which depends entirely on critical thinkers like you, Fand. It didn't take me long to realize what this forum was and certainly it was not the fairy tales that kept me here. There are other organizations with more claim to what we are and it angers me. To be called an outsider - angers me. Do you really know my fathers fathers so well? Are you quite certain your heritage doesn't have a single member not victim to the latin conspiracy?

Fand: Your stance impresses me and I was hoping my boldness would have the impact that it did. I am beyond enthused and have been feeling the gears ticking louder and louder for some time now. You might realize I openly invite criticism from my brothers, truly this is the path. I do not offer promises and secrets I cannot substantiate. I do not try to mystify you with fantasies. I would hope you more intelligent than to read words and accept them immediately. I am real. My scar is real, the fire burned bright. My screams silenced the night. The sky gave me a gift which is beyond your secrets, that you could never deny (I say as humbly as I can.)
Everything about me is so obvious that no one would ever mistake me for the shifty-eyed even looking and speaking to me.

Quote:
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it.


Likewise, it is not the fairy tales which keep me here. It is the exceptional minds I find posting and sharing their thoughts and insights here that keeps me coming back for more. Often I read but do not comment, unless I have something I feel worth adding. Often everything that needs to be said is, and so I remain silent. But there are few places where I can find such genuine thought from others.
I can understand your anger, because I understand your stance on what you consider to be brotherhood. The official OB offers little in the way of guidance, and indeed, seems to view us all with disdain, yet here we all are, conversing amongst ourselves on our endless journey along a path which is difficult to navigate as a result of years of neglect, for few have trodden this way since the desert religion came to destroy our ways. If the OB will not serve as a beacon to all those who truly seek to follow the path, then what purpose does it serve? Then let another take up the torch. We do not need fantastical claims to validate the path we walk. We have all been called to a purpose, unique to each of us, and no mortal has the authority to dismiss our purpose as invalid.
While I have not taken the sojourn and the marks of the OB, I have years ago dedicated myself to the old ways and to the elder kin. I have also been gifted with knowledge and wisdom and enlightenment for my efforts, and continue on that journey. I bear marks of my own choosing in the form of tattoos which to those in the know would recognize and understand the meanings of, and which serve as a constant reminder to me of my values and my path.
What wisdom, knowledge and inspiration has been bestowed upon me by my gods and my ancestors is mine alone, and no one can take that from me or delude me into dismissing these gifts as impotent imaginings. I was born wide awake. I was misled for a time, but my spirit and my spirit guides were always there, calling me back, whispering in my mind, telling me to look deeper, telling me to question. And it was not long that I threw off the shackles of the slave's religion and embarked on a journey into the unknown, trust into my own instincts, finding my way in the darkness. So, if the Odin Brotherhood doesn't want us, it is their loss, not ours.


Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:50 am
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Norse Storm wrote:
and so the wheels turn ... I have seen and noted the tells also ... perhaps you are both right? Or perhaps you are both wrong? ... Stormr

Fand wrote:
Haha! Yes, we have hijacked it. This discussion would be better placed on the Odin brotherhood identity thread. ;)
I am curious what anomalies you have discovered... It must have been a Christian priest who said curiosity killed the cat. ;p I have not perused too deeply into older content on the forum. When I first discovered the OB I scanned through topics the stood out as interesting to me. It has also been a while since I read the suggested literature. It's probably not a bad idea to go through it all again. Sometimes, coming back to something and reading it for the second time, you notice things you may have previously missed or simply didn't appreciate at the time.

It would be great if there was a means by which to discuss these things outside of the public threads, but there isn't. But I'm starting to think there's a reason for it.

And Fand, the post history here is definitely something worth searching through. That's what really got me asking questions.

Fand wrote:
That brings me to my next point, in response to a separate comment from you. I'd like to clarify my stance on race, in particular. I do not, nor have I ever been of the opinion that one race is superior to another. There are superior human beings, to be sure, and while one race may possibly appear to put forth more such superior beings, that is by no means justification for the belief that such a race is superior.
When I speak of preservation of ones ethnic heritage, I acknowledge the right and even the importance for all races to do likewise. Only by preserving the unique racial groups do we truly cultivate an ethnically diverse world. And if for no other reason than the mere beauty that such variety offers, then so be it. That is a valid enough reason for me. You say that all races are irrevocably mixed, but I do not see that. There is of course some mixing, and more so with some individuals than with others. The rather small genetic contributions from outside races into another mostly homogeneous race is hardly damaging to the ethnic purity. In fact, it may very well come with benefits. It is not too late, in my opinion, to preserve our various racial groups, and I don't see how a global population of completely mixed single race could be beneficial. To argue my point, I direct your attention to nature. A biodiverse eco system is always stronger and superior to a monoculture. We see great susceptibility in agriculture where biodiversity has been largely eliminated. Disease and pests become grave problems. Be careful that your view of the ubermensch as one mixed race does not come from the very psychopaths who rule our world, for that is precisely their agenda. Anything pushed by the powers that be should be resisted. The fact that they demonize racial purity, particularly for Caucasians, is serious cause for concern. There is a reason Caucasians are singled out as the first for elimination. They don't even want our genetics to be greatly mixed into the planned one race. Why? That is what I'd very much like to know. This touches on the subject of where the "white" race comes from. I suspect our race has a distant ancestor that was either another humanoid which is not directly shared by the other races, or an extraterrestrial/otherworldly ancestor. This is mere speculation, of course, and all I know for sure is that we have a greater percentage of Neanderthal genetic material than any other race. Also, Neanderthals were not the mere primitive ape man we have been led to believe. Archaeological finds have confirmed they were actually quite advanced, even building ships and sailing the seas. A large part of why they became extinct was due to havinlow birth rates (sound familiar), and combined with mixing with humans, they were also outgrew by humans. Add to that the conflicts which would have occurred between opposing tribes of humans and Neanderthals, it's not hard to imagine how over time, their numbers would have greatly fallen into decline. The same is now happening to Caucasians on a global scale. There are other racial groups suffering the same problems. I believe the Japanese are one such group. Of course, being of northwestern European descent, I loom at all this rather subjectively, but I also consider it from an objective perspective. Whatever dark deeds the old continent is guilty of does not negate the contributions it has made to the world. It was Europeans who first advanced technology beyond anything yet seen in our known, recorded world history. Since then, there have been plenty of contributions from the other racial groups, but would they have progressed so far by this time had it not been for Europeans planting the seeds of knowledge? Again, I am not implying superiority of any particular race. All have something to offer the world.
As for the Latin conspiracy, much of the world has fallen victim to its vampiric ways, but so long as there is a spark of life in the descendants of the indigenous folk of the world tribes, then all is not lost. Just as you feel certain connections to a timeless wisdom and to Wotan, so can we all find and connect with that sacred well of wisdom and find ourselves again. This is what I advocate, for all derives of the world. To take back our unique heritages, to build up our cultural identities anew. It needs not be an exact replica of the skeletons of the past, but should honour the past while finding ourselves in the present and growing towards the future. I would encourage those superior individuals of all races to strive for this purpose, and to revive the spirit of their folk! If you are mixed, do not dispair. It matters not. Look inside, and find the roots, sense how deep they reach and draw from that primordial spring. From the mixed races will arise a new race, a new culture, which will mature with time like a fine wine. Has it been any different for any race? For any culture? We are all hybrids, made up of the same building blocks in various ratios and arrangements, and this is what needs to be cultivated. The very fact that z-i-o-n-i-s-t-s and tptb would see us all reduced to one bland and boring race of hive minded slaves is all the more reason to strive relentlessly towards true racial diversity, by building towards homogeneous communities, states, nations, or at the very least advocating for a Weltanschauung that encourages procreation within ones own racial group, even if one lives in a multicultural city or state. Again, to reiterate, occasional racial mixing is not the issue here. It is only the programming that promotes such mixing en masse.


Excellent post. Eyes wide open. It is sad that people will read that and "see" only hate instead of the path to bountiful prosperity for all our posterity.

Fand wrote:
Likewise, it is not the fairy tales which keep me here. It is the exceptional minds I find posting and sharing their thoughts and insights here that keeps me coming back for more. Often I read but do not comment, unless I have something I feel worth adding. Often everything that needs to be said is, and so I remain silent. But there are few places where I can find such genuine thought from others.
I can understand your anger, because I understand your stance on what you consider to be brotherhood. The official OB offers little in the way of guidance, and indeed, seems to view us all with disdain, yet here we all are, conversing amongst ourselves on our endless journey along a path which is difficult to navigate as a result of years of neglect, for few have trodden this way since the desert religion came to destroy our ways. If the OB will not serve as a beacon to all those who truly seek to follow the path, then what purpose does it serve? Then let another take up the torch. We do not need fantastical claims to validate the path we walk. We have all been called to a purpose, unique to each of us, and no mortal has the authority to dismiss our purpose as invalid.
While I have not taken the sojourn and the marks of the OB, I have years ago dedicated myself to the old ways and to the elder kin. I have also been gifted with knowledge and wisdom and enlightenment for my efforts, and continue on that journey. I bear marks of my own choosing in the form of tattoos which to those in the know would recognize and understand the meanings of, and which serve as a constant reminder to me of my values and my path.
What wisdom, knowledge and inspiration has been bestowed upon me by my gods and my ancestors is mine alone, and no one can take that from me or delude me into dismissing these gifts as impotent imaginings. I was born wide awake. I was misled for a time, but my spirit and my spirit guides were always there, calling me back, whispering in my mind, telling me to look deeper, telling me to question. And it was not long that I threw off the shackles of the slave's religion and embarked on a journey into the unknown, trust into my own instincts, finding my way in the darkness. So, if the Odin Brotherhood doesn't want us, it is their loss, not ours.


What you will hear/read is that the "unworthy exclude themselves", however, this has always been a tough pill to swallow for me.. In the particular case of the OB, the unworthy can in fact include themselves. Anyone can claim the sojourn, anyone can memorize a bit of text. Anyone can play the part, and some do. Just search for the posts here of clearly unguided or lost individuals who ask questions like "can i do the sojourn in one night in my backyard instead, and im afraid of blood can I just ***** my finger with a pin? K thx bai!" (not an actual example, I'm having some fun with it). I am not speaking to the opportunities presented to help guide these individuals or bashing their personal journey, I am strictly speaking in terms of OB membership.

OB members are "higher" individuals (as reinforced by OB admin's recent statements) yet it is solely the ritual sojourn to be performed for self-initiation and there is no true method of verification other than "the marks", which is at best insufficient. Of course, if they didn't really do it then they aren't really OB correct? They would "know deep down". Or "trv OB will know". Well that's awfully convenient for the non-structure of the OB. It certainly wouldn't hinder any outward appearance and likewise doesn't protect against nefarious characters and plots.

Of course, only the worthy will truly go through with the sojourn. Except, that it's not that simple. Many people including myself, do this sort of thing every year for sh*ts and giggles. I call it camping or "minimalist camping". Where I live, if you walked into the bush without knowing what you are doing, there is a good chance you aren't coming back.

If all this comes down to is the sojourn and an individual experience, then there is no substance, merely a mindset and a ritual. I say merely, because it certainly isn't indicative of a secret society with any sort of coherent structure or standards. However, we know this cannot be the case because the OB is not universalist, reportedly. Unfortunately lacking any hierarchical authority that effectively becomes the standard. Lack of standards on top of lack of standards. Again, one needs only to look at recent posts to see examples of such thought.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:20 pm
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
StigandrMelrakki wrote:
Quote:
It would be great if there was a means by which to discuss these things outside of the public threads, but there isn't. But I'm starting to think there's a reason for it.

And Fand, the post history here is definitely something worth searching through. That's what really got me asking questions.


It would be nice to be able to have a private group discussion. I fess the only option would be to start up a throw away email group, to keep identities concealed and open the invitation to select members here.
Are there any threads you'd recommend? There is quite a lot to go through!


Quote:
Excellent post. Eyes wide open. It is sad that people will read that and "see" only hate instead of the path to bountiful prosperity for all our posterity.


Thank you, and yes, very true. People are so programmed they don't know the difference between hate and true appreciation of diversity. Very disappointing.

What you will hear/read is that the "unworthy exclude themselves", however, this has always been a tough pill to swallow for me.. In the particular case of the OB, the unworthy can in fact include themselves. Anyone can claim the sojourn, anyone can memorize a bit of text. Anyone can play the part, and some do. Just search for the posts here of clearly unguided or lost individuals who ask questions like "can i do the sojourn in one night in my backyard instead, and im afraid of blood can I just ***** my finger with a pin? K thx bai!" (not an actual example, I'm having some fun with it). I am not speaking to the opportunities presented to help guide these individuals or bashing their personal journey, I am strictly speaking in terms of OB membership.

OB members are "higher" individuals (as reinforced by OB admin's recent statements) yet it is solely the ritual sojourn to be performed for self-initiation and there is no true method of verification other than "the marks", which is at best insufficient. Of course, if they didn't really do it then they aren't really OB correct? They would "know deep down". Or "trv OB will know". Well that's awfully convenient for the non-structure of the OB. It certainly wouldn't hinder any outward appearance and likewise doesn't protect against nefarious characters and plots.

Of course, only the worthy will truly go through with the sojourn. Except, that it's not that simple. Many people including myself, do this sort of thing every year for sh*ts and giggles. I call it camping or "minimalist camping". Where I live, if you walked into the bush without knowing what you are doing, there is a good chance you aren't coming back.

If all this comes down to is the sojourn and an individual experience, then there is no substance, merely a mindset and a ritual. I say merely, because it certainly isn't indicative of a secret society with any sort of coherent structure or standards. However, we know this cannot be the case because the OB is not universalist, reportedly. Unfortunately lacking any hierarchical authority that effectively becomes the standard. Lack of standards on top of lack of standards. Again, one needs only to look at recent posts to see examples of such thought.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Agree with everything above.


Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:16 pm
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:32 pm
Posts: 567
Baleyg wrote:
If odinism is only to be trusted to a certain few, why perpetuate it at all? Why even continue, just to stagnate like a stale Cheetos swept in the corner of the frat house of world religions. This is not something you can hide or perpetuate or decide who is integrated. We have all come here thirsty and I have set out cups on the table that my ranting and spittle might fill one enough to rouse one to drink if they are thirsty enough.

I


I think I've got a sense of what the end game of all of this is, possibly.

Suffice to say that the world run by the the desert gods, and a growing brood giants (in this case megacorporations), is headed toward a turning point. Whether the goal is to prevent a collapse or to profit from it, I don't know.

The Bratva held themselves to the shadows all through the Communist era, and now they are the dominant force in Russia. As much as I wish they weren't because of the hideous dishonor of their actions today, I think their story highlights the benefits of letting a misguided ideology run its course until it collapses in on its own self.

I'm surprised how many people are unable to see that Communism and Desert-God-ism are exactly identical ideologies. They only differ in their choice of "invisible man in the sky".

When the religions of the West collapse on themselves do you want it to be the Bratva that win there also? Or someone with honor?


Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:41 pm
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