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Confusion about "hunter-gatherer" and Viking 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
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Honourable folk should be ready to step in when the moment is right, and reclaim this world and restore balance. Odinists should be at the forefront of this, not as superior to any other decent folk, but as brave men and women unwilling to wait in the background for others to do the work. If you want something done you have to do it yourself.
So what do we want done, and how can we realize our goals? These are the questions we need to be asking ourselves.

The world is going to sh*t all around us.
Do we want progressive infiltrators to tell the world what Odinism is and what defines us, such as the author of this blog post: https://mainer74.wordpress.com/2017/04/ ... t-goddess/

Or would you rather see honourable people leading the Odinist revival? If we are going to be an active part of this world and not hide in the shadows, then we need to make a stand for something.


Mon May 01, 2017 1:21 pm
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Fand wrote:
Honourable folk should be ready to step in when the moment is right, and reclaim this world and restore balance. Odinists should be at the forefront of this, not as superior to any other decent folk, but as brave men and women unwilling to wait in the background for others to do the work. If you want something done you have to do it yourself.
So what do we want done, and how can we realize our goals? These are the questions we need to be asking ourselves.

The world is going to sh*t all around us.
Do we want progressive infiltrators to tell the world what Odinism is and what defines us, such as the author of this blog post: https://mainer74.wordpress.com/2017/04/ ... t-goddess/

Or would you rather see honourable people leading the Odinist revival? If we are going to be an active part of this world and not hide in the shadows, then we need to make a stand for something.


Ugh... I only came across that blog because another member here posted a link in another thread. The first thing I noticed is The Troth crest. That's usually enough for me to hit the X on the window, with a few exceptions. Interesting history there. Don't know if you're familiar with it or not, it can be difficult to find the info these days. Regardless, they seem to me to be very similar to "Christian Wiccans". Stuck in the quagmire between new-agey neo-paganism and christianity, and don't have the fortitude to commit. I feel that many "norse wiccans" and "norse (neo)paganists" find their place there. It means they can still believe all the silly, misguided, destructive and perverse things they have been indoctrinated with. Not too dissimilar to today's feminism, LGBTUVWXYZ, "anarchist", AntiFa etc. etc. etc.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer White Fox


Mon May 01, 2017 8:24 pm
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StigandrMelrakki wrote:
Fand wrote:
Honourable folk should be ready to step in when the moment is right, and reclaim this world and restore balance. Odinists should be at the forefront of this, not as superior to any other decent folk, but as brave men and women unwilling to wait in the background for others to do the work. If you want something done you have to do it yourself.
So what do we want done, and how can we realize our goals? These are the questions we need to be asking ourselves.

The world is going to sh*t all around us.
Do we want progressive infiltrators to tell the world what Odinism is and what defines us, such as the author of this blog post: https://mainer74.wordpress.com/2017/04/ ... t-goddess/

Or would you rather see honourable people leading the Odinist revival? If we are going to be an active part of this world and not hide in the shadows, then we need to make a stand for something.


Ugh... I only came across that blog because another member here posted a link in another thread. The first thing I noticed is The Troth crest. That's usually enough for me to hit the X on the window, with a few exceptions. Interesting history there. Don't know if you're familiar with it or not, it can be difficult to find the info these days. Regardless, they seem to me to be very similar to "Christian Wiccans". Stuck in the quagmire between new-agey neo-paganism and christianity, and don't have the fortitude to commit. I feel that many "norse wiccans" and "norse (neo)paganists" find their place there. It means they can still believe all the silly, misguided, destructive and perverse things they have been indoctrinated with. Not too dissimilar to today's feminism, LGBTUVWXYZ, "anarchist", AntiFa etc. etc. etc.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer White Fox


I'm not familiar with the troth, but the moment I read in the post how Freya's sexual promiscuity, particularly in whoring herself to the dwarves for the sake of vanity, was being praised as her owning her sexuality, glorifying the idea of the means justifies the ends.
When I read about her affair with the dwarves for the necklace, what I took from that story was a sort of moral lesson. It did not feel to me that her actions were to be seen as admirable. But then, when are the gods ever portrayed as being infallible? This is what I love about our gods. They are not perfect and blameless. But that does not mean honour should be scrapped and certainly restraint should be exercised over the impulsive seeking of self gratification.
That post just seemed to be pushing the anything goes, and your mention of wiccans and neo pagans is squire fitting.
Through years of mingling in the pagan communities, particularly the Celtic/Druidic persuasion, I've come to recognize that sort very quickly. It bothers me that they try to steer every branch of paganism, drowning out all world views that conflict with their progressive propaganda.


Mon May 01, 2017 8:49 pm
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Fand wrote:
I'm not familiar with the troth, but the moment I read in the post how Freya's sexual promiscuity, particularly in whoring herself to the dwarves for the sake of vanity, was being praised as her owning her sexuality, glorifying the idea of the means justifies the ends.
When I read about her affair with the dwarves for the necklace, what I took from that story was a sort of moral lesson. It did not feel to me that her actions were to be seen as admirable. But then, when are the gods ever portrayed as being infallible? This is what I love about our gods. They are not perfect and blameless. But that does not mean honour should be scrapped and certainly restraint should be exercised over the impulsive seeking of self gratification.
That post just seemed to be pushing the anything goes, and your mention of wiccans and neo pagans is squire fitting.
Through years of mingling in the pagan communities, particularly the Celtic/Druidic persuasion, I've come to recognize that sort very quickly. It bothers me that they try to steer every branch of paganism, drowning out all world views that conflict with their progressive propaganda.


Agreed. I actually had an argument here with a member who was saying similar things. Might be worth digging up. I discussed things like the christian influence in our lore as well as indications in the lore itself that this was not some "virtue signaling" on behalf of Freyja.

And yes, amazing isn't it how no matter what they do, no matter what kind of organization we are talking about, just as you said they push EVERYTHING towards their no standard, free-for-all, make it up as we go along, non-syllogistic "progressive" (progressing to what?) nonsense. The silver lining is that they harder they push their more radical views, the more people are coming to realize the sheer lunacy of it. I archive articles and blogs etc. and the evolution of headlines and comment sections over the past 5 years has been nothing short of remarkable.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Mon May 01, 2017 9:07 pm
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StigandrMelrakki wrote:
Fand wrote:
I'm not familiar with the troth, but the moment I read in the post how Freya's sexual promiscuity, particularly in whoring herself to the dwarves for the sake of vanity, was being praised as her owning her sexuality, glorifying the idea of the means justifies the ends.
When I read about her affair with the dwarves for the necklace, what I took from that story was a sort of moral lesson. It did not feel to me that her actions were to be seen as admirable. But then, when are the gods ever portrayed as being infallible? This is what I love about our gods. They are not perfect and blameless. But that does not mean honour should be scrapped and certainly restraint should be exercised over the impulsive seeking of self gratification.
That post just seemed to be pushing the anything goes, and your mention of wiccans and neo pagans is squire fitting.
Through years of mingling in the pagan communities, particularly the Celtic/Druidic persuasion, I've come to recognize that sort very quickly. It bothers me that they try to steer every branch of paganism, drowning out all world views that conflict with their progressive propaganda.


Agreed. I actually had an argument here with a member who was saying similar things. Might be worth digging up. I discussed things like the christian influence in our lore as well as indications in the lore itself that this was not some "virtue signaling" on behalf of Freyja.

And yes, amazing isn't it how no matter what they do, no matter what kind of organization we are talking about, just as you said they push EVERYTHING towards their no standard, free-for-all, make it up as we go along, non-syllogistic "progressive" (progressing to what?) nonsense. The silver lining is that they harder they push their more radical views, the more people are coming to realize the sheer lunacy of it. I archive articles and blogs etc. and the evolution of headlines and comment sections over the past 5 years has been nothing short of remarkable.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


That will be like looking for a needle in a haystack! Haha! Who knows what I'll find along the way! ;)
And yes, quite amazing! What do these people do? Send out agents to infiltrate every group, every movement and steer it back towards their own agenda? Kinda makes you wonder if these neo pagans are really even pagans at all or just insurgents. Sounds like a job for Soros!
I am guessing the evolution of headlines you've archived have become increasingly nuts, or?? That's the impression I've had regarding societal norms and values. A rapidly degenerating process. It's really quite scary, when you think about it, because people seem to be getting dumber, so that they aren't really capable of independent thought and have limited ability "to make decisions without their television". I do hope more people will be restored to sanity.


Mon May 01, 2017 10:10 pm
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Fand wrote:
That will be like looking for a needle in a haystack! Haha! Who knows what I'll find along the way! ;)
And yes, quite amazing! What do these people do? Send out agents to infiltrate every group, every movement and steer it back towards their own agenda? Kinda makes you wonder if these neo pagans are really even pagans at all or just insurgents. Sounds like a job for Soros!
I am guessing the evolution of headlines you've archived have become increasingly nuts, or?? That's the impression I've had regarding societal norms and values. A rapidly degenerating process. It's really quite scary, when you think about it, because people seem to be getting dumber, so that they aren't really capable of independent thought and have limited ability "to make decisions without their television". I do hope more people will be restored to sanity.


What I have noticed is a gradual separation in the "sides". More and more people are being pushed to the "outer edges" of left and right (though I personally think of the simplistic shape of the spectrum more like a circle, or triangle even). Simultaneously so-called "moderate" numbers are getting smaller and smaller. Ultimately I believe the Sorosites and Frankfurters et al are fighting against a nature(s) they can only hope to beat. If they are initially successful (and by many measures they are) it will only be a matter of time before that nature(s) reasserts itself, as can be said of any failed state. The problem is how long that period lasts and what "progressions" are achieved, what the inevitable implosion will look like and what replaces it, which are our immediate concerns if we (or our progeny) have any hope of seeing that time line intact.

Initially, I saw a great dumbing down. But not even that. A great ignorance resulting from obfuscation and previous dumbing down through the annals, then supplanted by a new dumbing down for our age resulting from the subversion of pretty much all our institutions combined with apathetic, lackadaisical populaces. And wow has that ever been nauseating. However, in a relatively short period of time roughly coinciding with though slightly trailing the rise of the issues that are being sensationalized and force fed to people and even though as generally pessimistic and misanthropic in ways that I have been in the past, I have noticed a glimmer of promise in a slowly but steadily growing number of individuals. The process I'm sure, would be much faster if there weren't the huge complicating factor of a certain flavour, a competing interest actually. Actually a couple of competing interests but they are linked, and have similar effects. It is the one thing that many far leftists and rightists have in common but is COMPLETELY bass ackwards to the establishment (and some elements of) left and right. This (these) vampiric competing interest(s) being responsible for the obfuscation that prevents "left and right" from seeing that interest commonly as an enemy(ies) to prosperity.

The coming times sure will be interesting.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Mon May 01, 2017 10:59 pm
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts, stigandr. :)


Tue May 02, 2017 1:27 pm
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Fand wrote:
Honourable folk should be ready to step in when the moment is right, and reclaim this world and restore balance. Odinists should be at the forefront of this, not as superior to any other decent folk, but as brave men and women unwilling to wait in the background for others to do the work. If you want something done you have to do it yourself.
So what do we want done, and how can we realize our goals? These are the questions we need to be asking ourselves.


Yes. When the moment is right. Not early, not late.

Now would be a bit early, when Xians are circling the wagons, at their most paranoid in a long time. Openly attacking the things they feel threatened by.

Now is a good time to stay secret.

Quote:
The world is going to sh*t all around us.
Do we want progressive infiltrators to tell the world what Odinism is and what defines us, such as the author of this blog post: https://mainer74.wordpress.com/2017/04/ ... t-goddess/


It depends on who their audience is. Is their audience paranoid, increasingly militant Xians? If so, then I hope we appear as "progressive" as possible to them, so they'll get bored, roll their eyes, and go find someone else to boycott.

Is the audience people who could have been helpful? Then hopefully the gods will guide them in their search for something better than what they have. Many honorable people are raised in Xian families, and find Xianity's dishonorable notions and behavior to be quite unfulfilling. That emptiness will lead them to search for something else and put effort into the search. Most of those people will keep digging long enough to get past the "new age" exterior.

Quote:
Or would you rather see honourable people leading the Odinist revival? If we are going to be an active part of this world and not hide in the shadows, then we need to make a stand for something.


There is not going to be an Odinist revival. If there is anything like that, it is going to be a subtle thing. Like maybe Viking reenactments (like the Renaissance fairs, but more cool because they aren't reenacting a Xian dominated middle ages.)

There is some good stuff coming out of Iceland these days. (Video games, some movies.... etc)


Wed May 03, 2017 6:03 am
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Quote:
8-j wrote:

Yes. When the moment is right. Not early, not late.

Now would be a bit early, when Xians are circling the wagons, at their most paranoid in a long time. Openly attacking the things they feel threatened by.

Now is a good time to stay secret.


I know Christians, and while I strongly disagree with their religion, I do not feel that they are an immediate threat, but rather that we share some comments ground. Many Christians are members of our own families, our communities, neighbours, friends, etc. They are more often than nought decent enough folk misguided by dogma, but many of their core values resonate beyond the confines of religious dogma. They feel threatened by the extreme left, the atheistic world view that seeks to destroy all forms of morality and turn the world upside down. This is pushing many Christians further into the fundamentalist extremes as they try to resist. Rather than letting them think we are all just silly, and alienating them further, wouldn't it be better to show them that we have more in common than nought? Show them that we are honourable.
The rarely Christians to pagan Ireland and Breton actually made great strides in peaceful conversion and coexistence, before the violence that followed later. They did so by showing the pagans all the good that was in their hearts. Misguided though they were, these early Christians were motivated by good intentions, and believed in the decency of their god and religion. Their religion was judged by the pagans by the actions of those Christians, rather than the dogma itself.
I would advocate learning from the past, even from those we deem our enemies. Show the Christians the good in us, and they will hesitate to shun us. The time may come when we must face the church once more in conflict, but it is not now. For now, we could ease the way for greater understanding and thus stand a better chance in restoring balance.
Your statement that now is too early to act is, in my opinion, a cheap excuse, to avoid having to make an effort. One can always find an excuse for why "now" is too early, now is not the right time. Always putting off for tomorrow what could be done today. I am the queen of procrastination, so I know all about the excuses made when we don't want to act or face a challenging task.
There are always things we could be doing, even if while working from the shadows, and in that you may be right. But not in doing nothing.


Quote:
It depends on who their audience is. Is their audience paranoid, increasingly militant Xians? If so, then I hope we appear as "progressive" as possible to them, so they'll get bored, roll their eyes, and go find someone else to boycott.

Is the audience people who could have been helpful? Then hopefully the gods will guide them in their search for something better than what they have. Many honorable people are raised in Xian families, and find Xianity's dishonorable notions and behavior to be quite unfulfilling. That emptiness will lead them to search for something else and put effort into the search. Most of those people will keep digging long enough to get past the "new age" exterior.


I'm sure they have various audiences, but I am specifically speaking of individuals and organizations who have taken on a role of leadership. Much of the literature on paganism of whatever flavour is watered down fluff, that few can recognize for what it is. Finding anything authentic is like finding a needle in a haystack. Search all you want, but you may never find it. In the age of information, we are bombarded with enormous amounts of mindless drivel and deliberate disinformation, and that is becoming increasingly apparent in Odinism. Do you disagree?
It is one thing to shield one's identity or one's participation in a secret society, and squire another to be apathetic and complacent, while allowing infiltrators to steer the seekers off course.
One thing I always wished for when I embarked on my spiritual journey was for a mentor to help me find my way. Not to tell me what to think, just to guide. To help me wade through the sea of weeds. It was a very long and trying process to learn when more of what I found was utter garbage than useful information. How many genuine seekers get lost in that, I wonder? How many fall prey to self proclaimed leaders?
So your suggestion is just do nothing, and let them all figure it out for themselves? I don't agree with that, and I make no apologies.

Quote:
There is not going to be an Odinist revival. If there is anything like that, it is going to be a subtle thing. Like maybe Viking reenactments (like the Renaissance fairs, but more cool because they aren't reenacting a Xian dominated middle ages.)

There is some good stuff coming out of Iceland these days. (Video games, some movies.... etc)


There already is an Odinist revival. Whether subtle or not is irrelevant. Every one of us here who claim to be Odinists, Ásatru or whatever label we prefer, are a part of that revival, whether actively or passively.
You speak of viking reenactments as if that is going to educate people? Oh, sure it will educate them, but not necessarily in a truthful way. Here in Germany, there are people with whom I am acquainted that regularly work in viking reenactments who are the last people I'd want to see representing the old ways. I can say much the same for the druid revisionists I've met over the years. Our ways are being hijacked and turned into just another flavour of Wicca.
So I ask again: do we continue to sit back pretending to be important because we rant on a forum, or do we take action, however great or small, in actually preserving the lore and making it accessible to those who are searching for the way?
I have already made one personal goal that I might achieve something to that effect, by writing stories of the gods and heroes in ways that modern day audiences can appreciate. Will you not rise to the challenge and seek a way to be the change you wish to see in the world?


Wed May 03, 2017 8:58 am
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Quote:
I know Christians, and while I strongly disagree with their religion, I do not feel that they are an immediate threat, but rather that we share some comments ground. Many Christians are members of our own families, our communities, neighbors, friends, etc. They are more often than nought decent enough folk misguided by dogma, but many of their core values resonate beyond the confines of religious dogma.


To kind of amend to this - the same way Christianity is absorbed into certain cultures world wide, so has ours been touched by it's holy war. For example, I know an older Korean christian who still swears by her powders and concoctions. She is beyond wanting to commit blasphemy but using powders and holistic medicine is ingrained in who she is.

I often quiz those I encounter and what we believe and research is scarcely even known to "the other half" (more like the other 99.9 percent)

For example, German witchcraft is merely a perversion of Christianity and not our exact history. Our ancestors were not all so superstitious. If you truly consider our deep history, to survive our extermination those of us left must be of significantly subtle strains.

Frankly, we are in no position to deny anyone anything. Between science and belief one is going to save me and another will bury me. My servitude here is already set, my interest and time devoted is to accept my new identity in service to those who have died long ago. I don't need Valhalla, or a pantheon, or even Odin to know that I am Baleygr. Obviously I would be more secret to stay quiet but as discussed this would be as futile as death.


Wed May 03, 2017 12:25 pm
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Baleyg, Stigmanr, can you give me a throw away or discreet email address? I wish to share a link privately with you and a few others, if you don't mind.


Wed May 03, 2017 5:25 pm
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thipibiset@inaby.com

Good for 48 hrs.

Stigandr Melrakki
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Wed May 03, 2017 8:42 pm
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I once had similar thoughts about the Brotherhood but in the end we have to look at the intent of the book and the aims of the Brotherhood itself. There was a time when all one had to do get a copy of the book was email Mark Mirabello himself and he would send a free copy or copies of the book to the inquirer...

Mirabello as a man has intrigued me for years, his other books with hidden philosophies and messages to men who dared ask "is this really what he means" is a direct threat to the status quo to the current world order. I believe his intent is not for fame but for truth, a man who truly has seen a beauty in the world and is willing to share but only to those who are willing to learn.


Now what it the Brotherhood books intent? It is meant to be the beginning for a journey for men and women who are willing to protect the beauty they find. There is no need for a structure or hierarchy in this regard. Respect is earned in the proof of character the journey creates no need for some artificial structure in which "hidden master's" can hide behind. This is why anyone who claims to be Brotherhood is not because it is the knowledge that proves that fact not the boast and a true seeker cares nothing about proving themselves in a conspiracy of equels.



The Brotherhood on the forum's purpose is entirely focused on protecting the lore. Was there a secret organization that his and protected the seed of an older way of thinking and life?

I don't think it's so far fetched, we need only look at the resurgence of Romurva in Lithuania, about a hidden Pagan order in Abkenazia that came forward to reveal ancient shrines to its people only to be attacked my Muslims, the resurgence of "Asatru" in Iceland and the UK even has a temple shrine to the old gods. This may be ancedotal but I literally met a man who claimed to belong to an ancient Cult hailing from Russia that survived u broken until now. It was actually the event that kept me around so long.

So could Mark Mirabello have met an actual secret society of Pagans that value an older philosophy and hold secrets that most can't understand without changing their minds? I was at the time just an angry young man wanted by the police with nothing to offer anybody and I came in contact with someone extraordinary that changed my life for the better forever. Is it possible that a man like Mirabello who studied secret societies and knew how i read the signs came in contact with this society and admired it so much that he believed it's message was worth passing on?

I would say it's more than possible. In the end the oath of the Brotherhood is sworn to a purpose not a group of men. As it says in the books "Unconditional loyalty is admired in a dog but should be abhorred in a human.". Organizations because they are built by me but the idea which can be kept pure regardless if it is the original strand of the Brotherhood or not is the intent. If you allow the message to enhance your life, who you will become calls to other men like you and makes contact almost inevitable over a lifetime.


There is only one way to know for sure for all of you and that is to delve deeper. Although I have spent many years searching and I am not yet initiated the Brotherhood message changed my life and how much I value it.


Sun May 07, 2017 8:36 am
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As to the subject of this thread;

While the Pagan Scandinavians had livestock a and farms it ussually wasn't the "Vikings" themselves who ran them, it was their wives and thralls. They were free men in all regards. In their society no man had the right to stand in judgement whether he lived or died regardless of the crime upon his community right up until murder, the only thing the society could do was withdraw their protection. Because a life had to be taken by strength of will not the will of one who believed they held the right and power over their life.

The mindset of the hunter persisted over the mindset of the farmer (one who farmed as the will of a lord or man greater than himself) despite the physical existence of a farm.


Sun May 07, 2017 8:52 am
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BjornBerserk wrote:
I once had similar thoughts about the Brotherhood but in the end we have to look at the intent of the book and the aims of the Brotherhood itself. There was a time when all one had to do get a copy of the book was email Mark Mirabello himself and he would send a free copy or copies of the book to the inquirer...

Mirabello as a man has intrigued me for years, his other books with hidden philosophies and messages to men who dared ask "is this really what he means" is a direct threat to the status quo to the current world order. I believe his intent is not for fame but for truth, a man who truly has seen a beauty in the world and is willing to share but only to those who are willing to learn.


Now what it the Brotherhood books intent? It is meant to be the beginning for a journey for men and women who are willing to protect the beauty they find. There is no need for a structure or hierarchy in this regard. Respect is earned in the proof of character the journey creates no need for some artificial structure in which "hidden master's" can hide behind. This is why anyone who claims to be Brotherhood is not because it is the knowledge that proves that fact not the boast and a true seeker cares nothing about proving themselves in a conspiracy of equels.



The Brotherhood on the forum's purpose is entirely focused on protecting the lore. Was there a secret organization that his and protected the seed of an older way of thinking and life?

I don't think it's so far fetched, we need only look at the resurgence of Romurva in Lithuania, about a hidden Pagan order in Abkenazia that came forward to reveal ancient shrines to its people only to be attacked my Muslims, the resurgence of "Asatru" in Iceland and the UK even has a temple shrine to the old gods. This may be ancedotal but I literally met a man who claimed to belong to an ancient Cult hailing from Russia that survived u broken until now. It was actually the event that kept me around so long.

So could Mark Mirabello have met an actual secret society of Pagans that value an older philosophy and hold secrets that most can't understand without changing their minds? I was at the time just an angry young man wanted by the police with nothing to offer anybody and I came in contact with someone extraordinary that changed my life for the better forever. Is it possible that a man like Mirabello who studied secret societies and knew how i read the signs came in contact with this society and admired it so much that he believed it's message was worth passing on?

I would say it's more than possible. In the end the oath of the Brotherhood is sworn to a purpose not a group of men. As it says in the books "Unconditional loyalty is admired in a dog but should be abhorred in a human.". Organizations because they are built by me but the idea which can be kept pure regardless if it is the original strand of the Brotherhood or not is the intent. If you allow the message to enhance your life, who you will become calls to other men like you and makes contact almost inevitable over a lifetime.


There is only one way to know for sure for all of you and that is to delve deeper. Although I have spent many years searching and I am not yet initiated the Brotherhood message changed my life and how much I value it.

You have put into words something I have been unable to from the beginning of this thread. To me, the Brotherhood has been explained as a vehicle to something else ... Stormr


Mon May 08, 2017 1:06 am
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Please forgive my typos, I ussually don't have much time to write my posts. I am glad I could help.

I just want to add one more thing... To very loosely quote Edred Thorsson; not all things are hidden and mystery for the sake of hiding them. There is magic in the secret where if you were told the same information that you discovered was kept secret the magic would be lost. Everything has a purpose. This is why modern "scientific movement" is horrible. While knowledge is good they have taken the mystery and thus the magic from the world. That which was once sacred has now become mundane...

The most moving experience I have had was watching the sun set on a mountain side. The trees seemed to gleams gold with ts dying rays and every animal of the forest was singing a song of goodbye to the setting sun. Such magic...

Animals are grateful for each day and ritually celebrate its end but men are content with thinking that just because something is depressing and disappointing it most likely is the truth. That's not the case and you need only step outside this artificial bubble created by men who wish to control you to see it. I promise you, you will never regret it. When you realize you love your life and it's worth fighting for, it's then you are truly alive!!


Mon May 08, 2017 2:37 am
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BjornBerserk wrote:
Please forgive my typos, I ussually don't have much time to write my posts. I am glad I could help.

I just want to add one more thing... To very loosely quote Edred Thorsson; not all things are hidden and mystery for the sake of hiding them. There is magic in the secret where if you were told the same information that you discovered was kept secret the magic would be lost. Everything has a purpose. This is why modern "scientific movement" is horrible. While knowledge is good they have taken the mystery and thus the magic from the world. That which was once sacred has now become mundane...

The most moving experience I have had was watching the sun set on a mountain side. The trees seemed to gleams gold with ts dying rays and every animal of the forest was singing a song of goodbye to the setting sun. Such magic...

Animals are grateful for each day and ritually celebrate its end but men are content with thinking that just because something is depressing and disappointing it most likely is the truth. That's not the case and you need only step outside this artificial bubble created by men who wish to control you to see it. I promise you, you will never regret it. When you realize you love your life and it's worth fighting for, it's then you are truly alive!!


I've been reading the Àsatru Edda, and one thing you said above made me think of something I just read the other day, about how when the sun rises, you can see the reflection of Midgard's eastern horizon from Dellingr's home in Álfheimr. While the twilight is a reflection of Midgard's western horizon from Billingr's domain in Vanaheim.
I really like the story of Nátt, Dagr, Máni and Sol.
Also, I want to add that I do agree with what you said about the modern scientific movement. The way modern society thinks just strips away all tat is sacred in the world and life, and calls it progress. When I was growing up, I desperately wanted the world to be full of magic, like it seemed to be when I was very young. But once you enter school all that gets taken away. All your dreams of magic get turned into something dull and mundane. And what does it actually accomplish? How does it serve our best interests to, for an example, explain what really happens when the sun and moon rise and set, and that our world is just a ball spinning through space? Does it have any useful impact on our lives? When I read the lore, I find myself longing for that explanation to be the true one, and what we learn in school to be false.
But then I do question everything, ever the skeptic, so maybe there really is more truth in myth than in modern science. Wouldn't that be nice?
Of course, I know there still is magic in the world. I've witnessed/experienced it for myself at times throughout my life. But I wonder if that magic hasn't grown weaker due to neglect. What happens when people forget and stop believing in magic? In Terry Pratchett's book "Small Gods", he explains how when people stop believing in the gods, they become smaller, weaker, and when the situation becomes very bad, may even disappear altogether. There is a similar them in the Hogfather, where the belief is in magic and being's equivalent to the Yule father and tooth fairy, etc. When the children quit believing in magic, and these characters, they cease to exist. Magic disappears. I've often wondered if that is really how it is. Or when considering the land spirits and ancestral spirits who look after the land and descendants, when the people forget about them and stop communing with them, essentially abandoning these spirits, do they in turn abandon us?
Several times since living in my current residence in Germany, my cat has failed to come home at night. Each time I have asked the local spirits of the land to bring him safely back home, and every time he has come back, usually immediately! Within minutes of me asking the spirits for help. The modern mindset would seek to explain this with mundane "logic" or say it is only coincidence, and that nothing of a more supernatural nature ever occurred. But I cannot agree with that. Too much in my life has suggested otherwise.


Mon May 08, 2017 9:35 am
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:42 pm
Posts: 588
Fand wrote:
BjornBerserk wrote:
Please forgive my typos, I ussually don't have much time to write my posts. I am glad I could help.

I just want to add one more thing... To very loosely quote Edred Thorsson; not all things are hidden and mystery for the sake of hiding them. There is magic in the secret where if you were told the same information that you discovered was kept secret the magic would be lost. Everything has a purpose. This is why modern "scientific movement" is horrible. While knowledge is good they have taken the mystery and thus the magic from the world. That which was once sacred has now become mundane...

The most moving experience I have had was watching the sun set on a mountain side. The trees seemed to gleams gold with ts dying rays and every animal of the forest was singing a song of goodbye to the setting sun. Such magic...

Animals are grateful for each day and ritually celebrate its end but men are content with thinking that just because something is depressing and disappointing it most likely is the truth. That's not the case and you need only step outside this artificial bubble created by men who wish to control you to see it. I promise you, you will never regret it. When you realize you love your life and it's worth fighting for, it's then you are truly alive!!


I've been reading the Àsatru Edda, and one thing you said above made me think of something I just read the other day, about how when the sun rises, you can see the reflection of Midgard's eastern horizon from Dellingr's home in Álfheimr. While the twilight is a reflection of Midgard's western horizon from Billingr's domain in Vanaheim.
I really like the story of Nátt, Dagr, Máni and Sol.
Also, I want to add that I do agree with what you said about the modern scientific movement. The way modern society thinks just strips away all tat is sacred in the world and life, and calls it progress. When I was growing up, I desperately wanted the world to be full of magic, like it seemed to be when I was very young. But once you enter school all that gets taken away. All your dreams of magic get turned into something dull and mundane. And what does it actually accomplish? How does it serve our best interests to, for an example, explain what really happens when the sun and moon rise and set, and that our world is just a ball spinning through space? Does it have any useful impact on our lives? When I read the lore, I find myself longing for that explanation to be the true one, and what we learn in school to be false.
But then I do question everything, ever the skeptic, so maybe there really is more truth in myth than in modern science. Wouldn't that be nice?
Of course, I know there still is magic in the world. I've witnessed/experienced it for myself at times throughout my life. But I wonder if that magic hasn't grown weaker due to neglect. What happens when people forget and stop believing in magic? In Terry Pratchett's book "Small Gods", he explains how when people stop believing in the gods, they become smaller, weaker, and when the situation becomes very bad, may even disappear altogether. There is a similar them in the Hogfather, where the belief is in magic and being's equivalent to the Yule father and tooth fairy, etc. When the children quit believing in magic, and these characters, they cease to exist. Magic disappears. I've often wondered if that is really how it is. Or when considering the land spirits and ancestral spirits who look after the land and descendants, when the people forget about them and stop communing with them, essentially abandoning these spirits, do they in turn abandon us?
Several times since living in my current residence in Germany, my cat has failed to come home at night. Each time I have asked the local spirits of the land to bring him safely back home, and every time he has come back, usually immediately! Within minutes of me asking the spirits for help. The modern mindset would seek to explain this with mundane "logic" or say it is only coincidence, and that nothing of a more supernatural nature ever occurred. But I cannot agree with that. Too much in my life has suggested otherwise.



Maybe you misunderstand me a bit. What men once called magic we now call science, the difference is with the manner in which facts are taught and inderstood. The magic is stripped from the facts because there is no mystery.


Mon May 08, 2017 11:45 am
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:32 pm
Posts: 568
Fand wrote:
8-j wrote:

Yes. When the moment is right. Not early, not late.

Now would be a bit early, when Xians are circling the wagons, at their most paranoid in a long time. Openly attacking the things they feel threatened by.

Now is a good time to stay secret.


I know Christians, and while I strongly disagree with their religion, I do not feel that they are an immediate threat, but rather that we share some comments ground. Many Christians are members of our own families, our communities, neighbours, friends, etc. They are more often than nought decent enough folk misguided by dogma, but many of their core values resonate beyond the confines of religious dogma. They feel threatened by the extreme left, the atheistic world view that seeks to destroy all forms of morality and turn the world upside down. This is pushing many Christians further into the fundamentalist extremes as they try to resist. Rather than letting them think we are all just silly, and alienating them further, wouldn't it be better to show them that we have more in common than nought? Show them that we are honourable.
The rarely Christians to pagan Ireland and Breton actually made great strides in peaceful conversion and coexistence, before the violence that followed later. They did so by showing the pagans all the good that was in their hearts. Misguided though they were, these early Christians were motivated by good intentions, and believed in the decency of their god and religion. Their religion was judged by the pagans by the actions of those Christians, rather than the dogma itself.


What you are describing is the surface of Xianity.

There is a greater secret underneathe: the LEADERS of Xianity are not xian. Not in any meaningful sense. They don't obey the religion, but rather use it as a tool to manipulate those who do. You could think of them as the wolves who manage the sheep. (The "good shepherd" is a lie. The sheep are really just making things easy prey for the predators.)

The sheep do what they are told blindly. So it couldn't possibly matter at all how they react to us as individuals.

If their wolven leaders see us as a threat (or as competition), they will send the sheep after us. The sheep will just blindly obey.

I want to stay off the wolven leaders' radar.




Quote:
I'm sure they have various audiences, but I am specifically speaking of individuals and organizations who have taken on a role of leadership. Much of the literature on paganism of whatever flavour is watered down fluff, that few can recognize for what it is. Finding anything authentic is like finding a needle in a haystack. Search all you want, but you may never find it. In the age of information, we are bombarded with enormous amounts of mindless drivel and deliberate disinformation, and that is becoming increasingly apparent in Odinism. Do you disagree?
It is one thing to shield one's identity or one's participation in a secret society, and squire another to be apathetic and complacent, while allowing infiltrators to steer the seekers off course.


The gods will help those who should, to find it.

One day I decided to cut my finger, just to see if I could bring myself to do it. I had a rather dull knife, and I was just amazed how hard it is to overcome the natural instinct to stop cutting, even though the wound itself was very minor and all I was attempting to do was to just barely break the skin enough to draw blood. I've suffered much worse abrasions by accident and not even noticed them until later.

Anyway..... after doing this I suddenly started thinking about the Marvel "Thor" movie, and Anthony Hopkins' portrayal of Odin, and how even though Hopkins is cool in many other roles, his version of Odin just seemed like it couldn't possibly be right. Or even close.

I went into my house and googled "Odin" and this site came up. It probably wasn't even an hour after. And I had googled Odinism before on other occasions, due to some stuff my brother had been telling me about it, and only gotten the fluff you're talking about.

My point is: I don't think there is any need to advertise. When it is time for someone to come here, they will know to come here. Somehow they will just plain know.



Quote:
One thing I always wished for when I embarked on my spiritual journey was for a mentor to help me find my way. Not to tell me what to think, just to guide. To help me wade through the sea of weeds. It was a very long and trying process to learn when more of what I found was utter garbage than useful information. How many genuine seekers get lost in that, I wonder? How many fall prey to self proclaimed leaders?
So your suggestion is just do nothing, and let them all figure it out for themselves? I don't agree with that, and I make no apologies.


I don't think any of them get permanently lost.

The fluff is there as a place for those who shouldn't be Odinists to get caught in so they won't get in the way.

Just have to try and wrap your head around the idea that Norse gods are not an "invisible man in the sky" who sits back in total apathy and watches the world go amok, planning to simply judge and condemn everything he doesn't like at some kind of final tribunal.

The gods are quiet these days, but they interfere when it suits them.

Quote:

So I ask again: do we continue to sit back pretending to be important because we rant on a forum, or do we take action, however great or small, in actually preserving the lore and making it accessible to those who are searching for the way?
I have already made one personal goal that I might achieve something to that effect, by writing stories of the gods and heroes in ways that modern day audiences can appreciate. Will you not rise to the challenge and seek a way to be the change you wish to see in the world?
[/quote]

Who's pretending to be important? For the most part, if someone is on this forum for more than a year, it is because they never took the initiation to become a real member.

In some cases, they may be here because they have a role to play specifically. Tyrsman, for example, has been a moderator I think.

I'm still here because I haven't initiated. The gods are interesting to me, but I am not sure I want to consecrate myself to them.

I am a fiercely independent individual. Even to the point where I am not sure I would want to consecrate myself to a god. Even a very cool god.

But I will learn from them, anything they are willing to teach me.


Tue May 16, 2017 1:58 am
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:32 pm
Posts: 568
BjornBerserk wrote:
As to the subject of this thread;

While the Pagan Scandinavians had livestock a and farms it ussually wasn't the "Vikings" themselves who ran them, it was their wives and thralls. They were free men in all regards. In their society no man had the right to stand in judgement whether he lived or died regardless of the crime upon his community right up until murder, the only thing the society could do was withdraw their protection. Because a life had to be taken by strength of will not the will of one who believed they held the right and power over their life.

The mindset of the hunter persisted over the mindset of the farmer (one who farmed as the will of a lord or man greater than himself) despite the physical existence of a farm.



Raiding is for beginners. If you were a young man with very little or no combat experience, and only a sword to your name as wealth, then raiding villages would be a good way for you to get that much needed experience.

The raiding party, usually lead by a veteran (or a few veterans) would probably pick a fairly easy target, attack it, and in the ensuing battle each of the greenhorns in the company would get valuable combat experience (hopefully) without dying.

But the end game is protecting wealth. That's part of why you don't fight weaker foes. When you're protecting something, you don't really have any control over who will come to take it. You've got to be ready to fight overwhelming odds.

Vikings were incredibly effective traders, because they usually didn't get robbed. That's a very important trait for a trader to have.

Or for ranchers, or other kinds of industry, building anything of value will inevitably attract the attention of someone who wants to come take it. The Xians relied on professional armies (Knights in armor). But those armies didn't care about them very much and either couldn't or wouldn't mobilize to stop them from having their homes ransacked. The vikings didn't need a professional army to protect their homes. If you had a home, then you had probably gotten there by surviving some raids.


Tue May 16, 2017 2:21 am
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