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Confusion about "hunter-gatherer" and Viking 
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One of the main topics debated here is whether we should become public and try to 'initiate' others into Odinism/Asatru or whether it is better to remain secret or low key. This is something each of us has to decide for ourselves. However, to band together with the intention of initiating others is not the way. Odinists/Asatru/Hea_thens do not 'recruit', we leave that for the Xtians. External circumstances will dictate a person's ability or situation as to whether they want to become public. Xtians being the fickle sheep they are will have no fear of returning to the burning times and we are of no use to our gods or our community dead. Am I fearful? No. But I am also not stupid and to die for the wrong reason is not something I entertain.

With regard people finding Odinism/Asatru, as with many here, they will find their own way. The gods are ever watchful and they will create situations where seekers are put in touch with someone who knows. On a personal level, in the past six months alone I have had five people 'reveal' to me in passing their willingness to accept the Old Ways (either Celtic or Norse). I am not outwardly spoken with regard to my beliefs, I have no tattoo or display my belief any any other way, however I am not backward in coming forward with regard to my disdain for Xtianity. As with many here who came 'perchance' upon this website, so too are people being directed to those of us who are able to assist them in their journey. As has been said here by 8-j and White Fox amongst others, now is the time to lay low and wait. Perhaps we will never come out into the public domain in the same way as the desert gods or other religious groups, perhaps it is for us to have only localised communities or enclaves with which to preserve the lore, only time will tell what is the best course forward.

However, I think for us to get caught up in the hows and whys/not of becoming 'mainstream' will only lead to destruction. As has been pointed out here, there are many who call themselves pagan but when the SHTF will run a mile. This is the reason why anonymity and secrecy are key to our survival and to the existence of our future generations.

On a final point, I believe it is necessary to preserve our lore and to be able to pass it on to others, however, we do need to be mindful (as I have said before) that the lore was written by a Xtian for a Xtian audience. The lore is tens of thousands of years old and has been passed from one storyteller to another during that time so details may have been changed, embellished, re-created or omitted When a bard traveled, the stories would have adapted (over time) to incorporate the local wights and spirit folk. What am I trying to get at? The lore has evolved. As our ancestors evolved. Just as we are evolving.

Take-away : The gods will direct each of us to the path best suited to their needs and ours. Follow your gut instinct. Trust in yourself. The gods will speak to you when they need something done. Don't try to presume what they want or decide what is best for them, that will only allow us to fall into the hands of the desert gods and their minions. Watch, listen, be aware and help those who seek.

Stormr


Tue May 16, 2017 4:31 am
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As stated I value empirical value, no what some person tells us he is told. I am accused as an outlier and conspirator and I have not said a single word of the voices I can hear. Certainly there is an importance with "going with your gut" but that is not how our vessel will steer correctly to new lands.

There is already a suitable pantheon here for us to make our claim.


Tue May 16, 2017 4:43 pm
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Who said anything about recruiting or going public and mainstream?
That was not my meaning. A secret society can have its goals and direction, along with a stable level of organization without going out to recruit others or publicly advertising. Just as everyone here found their way to this site somehow, so too can other people find their way into the fold of would be initiates.
My point was that with actual organization, however secret it may be, is what would give purpose. Otherwise, without that, there is a just another forum, and we're all deluding ourselves into thinking we have found something more.


Tue May 16, 2017 8:43 pm
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Baleyg wrote:
As stated I value empirical value, no what some person tells us he is told. I am accused as an outlier and conspirator and I have not said a single word of the voices I can hear. Certainly there is an importance with "going with your gut" but that is not how our vessel will steer correctly to new lands.

There is already a suitable pantheon here for us to make our claim.


Agreed.

Fand wrote:
Who said anything about recruiting or going public and mainstream?
That was not my meaning. A secret society can have its goals and direction, along with a stable level of organization without going out to recruit others or publicly advertising. Just as everyone here found their way to this site somehow, so too can other people find their way into the fold of would be initiates.
My point was that with actual organization, however secret it may be, is what would give purpose. Otherwise, without that, there is a just another forum, and we're all deluding ourselves into thinking we have found something more.


I agree with this as well.

Norse Storm, I actually did not intend to convey a message of "now is the time to lay low". I am struggling to understand what I may have inadequately articulated so as to give the impression that is what I was saying with regards to OB or Odinism in general.

I am not talking about the spread or mainstreaming of the beliefs/culture/religion or the OB. 1 + 1 != 3 and there are questions that need answers and conflicting principles that need to be reconciled or this whole thing falls like a house of cards and we are wasting our time on a distracting fantasy, however attractive it may be. These things have little to do with the secrets the OB holds, or even the OB itself as a physical entity. Likewise it has little to do with what we believe, or what we would like to believe. It has to do with the logical inconsistencies that face us as the 'framework' (or lack thereof) of the OB that result in a question of the plausibility of the matter to begin with given its current presentation.

Talk about the intent of the book (as presented in this thread) and allowing the message to enhance one's life, not needing an actual organization etc. I believe is merely smoke and mirrors. Not that it is valueless, just that it is more properly labeled irrelevant if we are talking about a secret society. If the oath is sworn solely to a purpose (not trying to pick out any particular posts or posters, these are not uncommonly espoused views, I am using examples), then we are not talking about secrecy we are talking about privacy, and we aren't talking about a society, we are talking about a common creed, conviction or hobby. Certainly one that doesn't require any ritual never mind the specific ritual of the Sojourn. Hell, it doesn't even require us to have the same beliefs. It doesn't require even knowing anything about the OB. To me this kind of sounds like another universal, new agey, heartwarming, coddling, perfectly dismissive idea. In fact, it kind of sounds downright LARPy to me lol.

On the point of spreading Odinism and the like, my perspective is one of self preservation. I believe we should be "red-pilling" as many of our kin (and everyone else for that matter) as possible, as fast as possible.I believe that will naturally include or lead to "the old ways" of some flavour, because we are talking of matters of truth, matters of culture, matters of family and history. This will naturally extend to the preservation of our lore (again not requiring the Sojourn or OB). That being said, this is usually an almost impossible task for a myriad of reasons and requires finesse and leadership qualities to properly accomplish. Not to mention normally taking a number of years to properly red pill (not just socially re-engineer) a single sheep who could otherwise likely be lost until their demise.

In general, as 8-j stated succinctly; "When it is time for someone to come here, they will know to come here. Somehow they will just plain know." Though, I do not equate this to "we should lay low". Nor do I think everyone will have a time where they just plain know. As stated above I believe we can and to a degree should (those that are properly capable) at the very least, help this process along purposely or inadvertently, even in subtle ways. I don't mean in any sense proselytizing for Odinism or recruiting for OB. I am painting with a far broader brush than that.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Tue May 16, 2017 11:26 pm
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Stigmandr, you put into words my sentiments, exactly! Much more eloquently than my own attempts to clarify my intent.


Wed May 17, 2017 8:16 am
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Numbers can offer a tactical advantage, but they can also be a liability. To quote Benjamin Franklin "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead." And you may know what book I've been reading lately from that.

New age Odinism gives old age Odinism a way to hide in plain sight. Or a place to direct people who can't keep a secret. Or a bit of both.

I'm pretty sure Odin isn't trying to be the next Desert God, or the next "Jesus Christ, superstar". Just carve out a place. The world needs to go back to being interesting, not all uniform and identical. Not governed by just one god.


Wed May 17, 2017 11:41 am
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8-j wrote:
Numbers can offer a tactical advantage, but they can also be a liability. To quote Benjamin Franklin "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead." And you may know what book I've been reading lately from that.

New age Odinism gives old age Odinism a way to hide in plain sight. Or a place to direct people who can't keep a secret. Or a bit of both.

I'm pretty sure Odin isn't trying to be the next Desert God, or the next "Jesus Christ, superstar". Just carve out a place. The world needs to go back to being interesting, not all uniform and identical. Not governed by just one god.


Agree wholeheartedly with regards to secrets. Agree somewhat with the statement regarding old and new age odinism with the caveat that it's all good except when it's being actively subverted. For all intents and purposes the population at large does not and will not ever understand the differences in the different flavours of odinism. Just like human rights, education, science and politics that have been co-opted by "extremists", the other voices are drowned out. You don't hear much about gay, African or Mexican trump supporters, except where they are being tarred and feathered by their own for stepping off the plantation. Great for OB secrecy, terrible for our culture. We have already seen and are seeing the demonizing of Odinism. The Troth already purports to be morally superior to other Odinists and already tries to ostracize those that don't tow the logically ambiguous, nonsensical PC dogma that they masquerade as Odinism. I wish to see this stopped. This is also why I take such a hard stance on the OB stuff. Even on this forum we have hugely conflicting ideas of what the OB is. And I'm sorry to say, but I fully recognize the signs of potential for hostile co-option and blind obedience in a number of members of this forum, present or past. That is why I think this is so important. Without any defining characteristics, all it will take is one of these Alinsky-ite agents to stand up and claim "OB is X and we are the authority." No OB, real or imagined can stand up to this with the current outstanding issues.

In one word, it is ridiculous.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Wed May 17, 2017 4:20 pm
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The New Age stuff is dangerous because it is really Christianity claiming not to be Christianity. Communism was supposed to be fully secular, but in all ways behaved identical to Christianity (including the hypocrisy). Most of the New Age stuff does essentially the same thing. Spreads the ideology of Jesus Christ, while calling itself by the names of other religions, so that after people have embraced its ways, it can then point out the similarities (and point out that you've been worshipping Jesus all along).

"Politically Correct" means you adhere to Jesus' teachings. It always does. It never deviates from his teachings even in very small matters, except the "no fornicating" part. It ignores the Old Testament of the Bible quite a lot, but keeps itself right in line with the New Testament.

They are tolerant of rejection of their figure head, but not rejection of his ideas. Rejection of his ideas will be punished just as badly as rejection of his name would have been in the middle ages. It is equated with "the age of reason". Assumed any person capable of thinking for themself would naturally agree. (As during the middle ages, belief in their god was equated with reason.)


That's why it is best to just keep hiding. The tolerance is all just a bluff. We really are still living in the middle ages. Xianity is just as powerful, and just as dangerous as it ever was. They won't torture a confession out of you. Instead they will lock you in prison or an asylum. Put you on meds to adjust your attitude until you "confess your sins" because you honestly believe you have been a sinner.

If we want to collaborate with our kin, and discuss the old ways, it has to be in secret. The Xians (or New age fake secularists who are actually Xian and don't admit it) should never know.


Wed May 17, 2017 8:33 pm
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We have nothing to hide and no reason to fear repercussions. There is no vault safe from assumption. Our culture has already been annihilated so the question is will it ever be restored?

Until then, I will believe in songs that heal the dead when I can hear them.


Thu May 18, 2017 12:30 am
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8-j wrote:
The New Age stuff is dangerous because it is really Christianity claiming not to be Christianity. Communism was supposed to be fully secular, but in all ways behaved identical to Christianity (including the hypocrisy). Most of the New Age stuff does essentially the same thing. Spreads the ideology of Jesus Christ, while calling itself by the names of other religions, so that after people have embraced its ways, it can then point out the similarities (and point out that you've been worshipping Jesus all along).

"Politically Correct" means you adhere to Jesus' teachings. It always does. It never deviates from his teachings even in very small matters, except the "no fornicating" part. It ignores the Old Testament of the Bible quite a lot, but keeps itself right in line with the New Testament.

They are tolerant of rejection of their figure head, but not rejection of his ideas. Rejection of his ideas will be punished just as badly as rejection of his name would have been in the middle ages. It is equated with "the age of reason". Assumed any person capable of thinking for themself would naturally agree. (As during the middle ages, belief in their god was equated with reason.)


That's why it is best to just keep hiding. The tolerance is all just a bluff. We really are still living in the middle ages. Xianity is just as powerful, and just as dangerous as it ever was. They won't torture a confession out of you. Instead they will lock you in prison or an asylum. Put you on meds to adjust your attitude until you "confess your sins" because you honestly believe you have been a sinner.

If we want to collaborate with our kin, and discuss the old ways, it has to be in secret. The Xians (or New age fake secularists who are actually Xian and don't admit it) should never know.


Agreed

Quote:
Agree wholeheartedly with regards to secrets. Agree somewhat with the statement regarding old and new age odinism with the caveat that it's all good except when it's being actively subverted. For all intents and purposes the population at large does not and will not ever understand the differences in the different flavours of odinism. Just like human rights, education, science and politics that have been co-opted by "extremists", the other voices are drowned out. You don't hear much about gay, African or Mexican trump supporters, except where they are being tarred and feathered by their own for stepping off the plantation. Great for OB secrecy, terrible for our culture. We have already seen and are seeing the demonizing of Odinism. The Troth already purports to be morally superior to other Odinists and already tries to ostracize those that don't tow the logically ambiguous, nonsensical PC dogma that they masquerade as Odinism. I wish to see this stopped. This is also why I take such a hard stance on the OB stuff. Even on this forum we have hugely conflicting ideas of what the OB is. And I'm sorry to say, but I fully recognize the signs of potential for hostile co-option and blind obedience in a number of members of this forum, present or past. That is why I think this is so important. Without any defining characteristics, all it will take is one of these Alinsky-ite agents to stand up and claim "OB is X and we are the authority." No OB, real or imagined can stand up to this with the current outstanding issues.

In one word, it is ridiculous.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Agreed.


Thu May 18, 2017 1:55 am
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Once upon a time, the relatively small and inconsequential Jesus cult, which was at the least ignored, and at most resisted, found it's way to the top of the religious and political structure. They started off as nothing in a pagan world and grew into a beast that devoured all the old ways of an entire continent.
The initial impulses may be to hide or run from such a beast, but sooner or later it will sniff you out. Only cowards run and hide. The cunning and the brave seek other ways. The brave may rush recklessly into battle, die gloriously, but lose the war, while the cunning try to outthink their opponent.
The coward will do nothing to preserve the legacy owed to their descendants. The cunning and the brave will persevere and fight to do what the cowards will not.
The cunning are not too foolish to make use of the brave, nor any other asset they might use.
The OB, or something like it could be used quite effectively to shield the identities of those actively working to resist all the threats that not only Odinists face, but even the ethnic and cultural natives of Europe.
This is all so much bigger than just one folkish spiritual brand. This is about the future of all of Europa and her descendants around the world. And when we are faded from existence, the next racial and cultural target for annihilation will be singled out and vilified. If you cannot see this, then you are a narrow minded fool, and I will waste no more time trying to convince you of the realities with which we are faced.
If we all continue to keep our heads down and let infiltrators steer our religion down the path to generic neo paganism, just as they have steered our folk down the path of self destruction, then the point will come in which it will be far too late for action, even impossible.
Europe is being systematically overrun and outbred.
The last remaining shreds of our cultural traditions which have miraculously survived the Christian conversion are now entering their death throes, believe it or not.
The hour has already grown late. We cannot afford to wait. Either we try, win or lose, or we fade away, to be forever forgotten.
A secret society can serve to steer our course, without the mainstream public ever knowing what that course is or who is behind it. There will likely be "casualties", metaphorically speaking, hopefully not literally, but the whole would be shielded. In this way, the ship will not sink, but hold its course.

So, the choice is yours: do you take the blue pill or the red pill?
Do you run and hide like a witless coward? Or do you act, with wisdom, courage and honour?
All the preaching I see here about the way of the OB being about being an extraordinary man/woman is all just lip service, empty words, if not followed through with actions.
This is where I agree with Baleygr.


Thu May 18, 2017 10:10 pm
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We must try to understand the enemy we are up against. They are totally impervious to a frontal assault. Worst/best case, if they thought they were truly about to lose control, they would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons on their own followers. (And they can find fanatics to do the launching.)

There is no victory to be won at that level of conflict.

It's like trying to shoot bullets at Superman. If we want to beat him, we need to be looking for the Kryptonite.


All the meaningful battles, the ones that could or ever would decide anything, are being fought behind the scenes. In the shadows.


If we win, then nobody will ever know we won. If we lose, they won't know that either. But if we lose, everyone we care about is doomed. They'll be gradually rounded up and killed from the inside out, confused as to why it is all happening.


We need to be gathering power. Secrecy has power, but so does other stuff.


Sat May 20, 2017 1:15 am
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8-j wrote:
There is a lot of discussion on this forum about secrecy.

My personal theory is that the Xians figured out how to use secrecy first, and that is why they won. Every enemy they encountered was defeated from the inside, and then went on to lose a pitched battle in broad daylight. But the real battle was fought in the dark.

Islam all but invented the assassin. (or Hashish-an, which was the name given to a group of Islamic fanatics who began threatening world leaders of their day with assassination.) I'm sure the concept existed before then, but they took it to a whole new level.


I agree 100% with the idea of the power of secrecy however, I make the distinction that the average adherent or clergyman is separate from the power structures which enslave them. Just like the discussion about possible OB co-option, "Xtianity" was co-opted/subverted or perhaps created by sociopaths and psychopaths. Actually, it looks like a large number of institutions, corporations, and groups are in the same boat.

I think that a majority of people on this planet are so-called "useful idiots", which to me is a pejorative synonymous with "normy", "sheep" or "regular person". They are like a herd of cows. Worked into a stampede they can wreak serious havok. Calm them down, coddle them and stuff them full and they are easily controlled. In fact, it seems that human sentience itself is on a sliding scale. The majority of "regular people" are like slates, starting blank (of course there are genetic and instinctual factors) which can be written on and changed at will. This is actually true of all people in some ways, which makes it all the more dangerous. This does not absolve them of responsibility for their actions which serve to destroy virtue, but goes a long way to understanding it. A majority of the people on Earth are obviously controlled by a minority of people which is true in every aspect of life, but the people I am talking about are a dangerous combination of highly sentient, intelligent and psycho/socio-pathic who are the puppet masters that go by many names, one for each head of the hydra. If it sounds like I'm categorizing people in simplistic terms of a few categories, this is not so for there are innumerable combinations of sentience, intelligence and pathology, which is why some people can be "red pilled", religiously converted, radicalized, induced to psychosis and other such paradigm shifts or pathologies, catalyzed or nurtured by those that are seemingly capable of almost breathing life into individuals. I find this absolutely fascinating and also esoterically significant.

Upon contemplation, I wonder if sociopathy is what "they" aspire to, likely without such labeling. Do they conflate ignoring or suppressing most emotion and humanity with mastering such? I wonder if this quality is considered enlightened, or evolved. Being above basal instinct (which of course they are not, it is just self delusion; another chink in their armor)?


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If you want to fight this kind of enemy, you've got to kill their assassins. If you want to kill their assassins, you have to find them first. If you want to find them first, before they find and kill you, then you've got to keep them from figuring out who you are long enough to get the upper hand in the information game.

It's all cloak and dagger these days. Secret handshakes. Backroom deals. Boardroom lies. If you're not up for it, then I'd advise you to just get a "Mjolner" tattoo or something, and make some mead sacrifices, or et cetera. Just live the religion. Raise strong and successful children.


Agreed.

On the point of secrecy, I believe that the mysteries of existence are simultaneously the secrets and the weapons used to keep the secrets. Many of the secrets are hidden in plain sight. The only "power" these people have is that by virtue of their subversions they have the means to control the repositories of knowledge present and past. In smaller terms, they have no power outside of the power they prevent others from attaining (and subsequently that power which we give them). Do they have all the secrets? No. In fact, I suspect they barely understand what secrets they do have. Just enough to use them as symbols of elitism, perform symbolic rituals and wield the secrets as bludgeons, instruments of greed and debauchery and the like, which is why they focus on death, destruction and control of others instead of making their own collective utopia. They are simply incapable, because their power is an illusion.

One VERY interesting "conspiracy theory" that speaks to this is with regards to special geographical locations on earth that could hold knowledge or power. In the US and Canada for example, many of these sites suddenly find themselves in the middle of a "native land claim" or the government inexplicably includes such sites within borders "protected" from regular individuals from investigating. These sites become "sacred" and NO research or investigation ever happens. The government retains control and effectively smokescreens the very existence of such areas. It feeds into certain social narratives and the controversy surrounding these narratives further smokescreens the issues. Simultaneously these groups are being used to facilitate these activities.

Quote:
Or keep training and preparing until somebody who does know how to play that kind of game calls upon you to join them. But just keeping the lore alive does something. It's not worth the risk to lose it. Any kind of active warfare should take place in a break away group of some kind. Separate tools for separate tasks.

It may well be that members of the OB have stepped out of the shadows over the centuries.


Agree with the first point. Very skeptical of the latter point as there is no evidence of such outside making a religious statement of belief, however it is an intriguing possibility.

Stigandr Melrakki
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Sun May 21, 2017 1:19 pm
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8-j wrote:
We must try to understand the enemy we are up against. They are totally impervious to a frontal assault. Worst/best case, if they thought they were truly about to lose control, they would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons on their own followers. (And they can find fanatics to do the launching.)

There is no victory to be won at that level of conflict.

It's like trying to shoot bullets at Superman. If we want to beat him, we need to be looking for the Kryptonite.


All the meaningful battles, the ones that could or ever would decide anything, are being fought behind the scenes. In the shadows.


If we win, then nobody will ever know we won. If we lose, they won't know that either. But if we lose, everyone we care about is doomed. They'll be gradually rounded up and killed from the inside out, confused as to why it is all happening.


We need to be gathering power. Secrecy has power, but so does other stuff.


Yes, we must understand our enemy, and the first step to that is in acknowledging that the enemy is so much more than just the church. Religion is just a tool, just one head of the beast. Cut it off and another grows in its place, as stigmandr alluded to. We can see this already in motion with the crumbling of Christianity in many ways while simultaneously, political correctness and social Marxism rise in its place. Christianity was never intended to make people more moral... Only to make them believe they were moral as justification for whatever acts the sheep were commanded to commit. Now the same is happening amongst the politically far left. The sheep have been herded from belief in a god telling them what to do, to politics telling them what to do. Is allows for a whole new level of debauchery, as there is no moral compass to give people pause to think. The witch hunt won't come from the Christian front this time, but from a political one: one that seeks to silence and oppress all thought that does not adhere to the hivemind.

As I have already stressed, I agree that secrecy is crucial. But let me say it again: secrecy is not the same as doing nothing! Act in secret, from the shadows, never showing who we are, who we are affiliated with, whom we work for...etc, etc...
A full frontal battle was already attempted, when a certain individual/group of individuals clearly saw the enemy for what it was, or as clearly as is possible. They took on that for, to their peril, which culminated in a tragic world war.
So, no, this is not what I am suggesting needs to be done... Or rather, a major polical move of this kind should not be the real battle. Something mainstream like that could do wonders to draw eyes elsewhere, while rallying and motivating the masses, while the real work to weed out the evil goes unhindered behind the scenes.
This is what Adi did, but he made the mistake of letting it be know who was doing the weeding out, rather than have a shadow force that no one knew about.
Also, it is a mistake to put forward your best man into the limelight. That's not the person you want to lose if all goes to shite.
So, my idea would be a "war" on two fronts. One hidden, one seen, but never showing who you work for/with.
But my ultimate point here, is that as it currently stands, we are a part of nothing, we are essentially doing nothing, while tptb push ever nearer to game over. Anyone who wants to make whatever kind of difference they can in tipping the scales should secretly band together and start planning. What can we do? We can't know that or safely discuss that on a forum which is visible to prying eyes.
If there is an organized OB that we are not privy to, and not wanted by, then let us not be completely idol, but rather branch off on our own and come up with a plan for how we can assist in the fight against tptb. Even if it is in a passive way, so be it. There are ways we can weaken them, without resorting to violence and crime. The first would be making ourselves as little dependant upon their most valuable tool of control: money!


Mon May 22, 2017 8:29 am
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Very well said Fand!


Mon May 22, 2017 1:12 pm
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WinterSpear wrote:
Very well said Fand!


Thank you, winter spear.


Mon May 22, 2017 1:18 pm
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To whom it may concern:
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Mon May 22, 2017 1:19 pm
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StigandrMelrakki wrote:

I agree 100% with the idea of the power of secrecy however, I make the distinction that the average adherent or clergyman is separate from the power structures which enslave them. Just like the discussion about possible OB co-option, "Xtianity" was co-opted/subverted or perhaps created by sociopaths and psychopaths. Actually, it looks like a large number of institutions, corporations, and groups are in the same boat.


I suspect that things like child pornography are ways they identify each other. Anyone who truly belongs within their inner circle will not care about the welfare of a child, nor the dishonor of harming one.

If someone does care about that, they get politely passed by. Another "useful idiot". They will help out the useful idiots to positions of power whenever they can afford to, because they need them to give credibility to the cause. The sitting Pope is probably one such useful idiot. (But I think perhaps some Popes in the past have been full initiates).

Quote:
Upon contemplation, I wonder if sociopathy is what "they" aspire to, likely without such labeling. Do they conflate ignoring or suppressing most emotion and humanity with mastering such? I wonder if this quality is considered enlightened, or evolved. Being above basal instinct (which of course they are not, it is just self delusion; another chink in their armor)?


There is a certain self awareness in realizing that you instinctively want to do like Conan the Barbarian. "See your enemies driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women." Our instinct is to preserve our own genes, while wiping out the genes of anyone else who isn't part of our own genes' progress. Christianity teaches to do the opposite. So it is probably fun for someone who has awakened this far to manipulate others into giving you everything you ever wanted.

You've awakened one degree when you realize this.

The next degree is when you realize your instincts are wrong. Not totally bad, but quite a bit inaccurate. Almost like a clock that is right twice a day.

Our instincts evolved hundreds of thousands of years ago, before our intellect. They describe an environment totally unlike anything we face today or ever likely will face again.

Our intellect, for its part, is still developing. It still has a long way to go, but it is the future.

When you temper your intellect against your instincts, and your instincts against your intellect, then you are truly self aware. Or well... at least you've moved ahead another step.

I don't know how many steps there are. It might turn out to be a never ending stair case for all I know.

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On the point of secrecy, I believe that the mysteries of existence are simultaneously the secrets and the weapons used to keep the secrets. Many of the secrets are hidden in plain sight. The only "power" these people have is that by virtue of their subversions they have the means to control the repositories of knowledge present and past. In smaller terms, they have no power outside of the power they prevent others from attaining (and subsequently that power which we give them). Do they have all the secrets? No. In fact, I suspect they barely understand what secrets they do have. Just enough to use them as symbols of elitism, perform symbolic rituals and wield the secrets as bludgeons, instruments of greed and debauchery and the like, which is why they focus on death, destruction and control of others instead of making their own collective utopia. They are simply incapable, because their power is an illusion.


I agree.

They probably don't see any real wisdom in them. Just a bunch of useful idiocies to mingle their lies into. Like sugar coating a cyanide pill.

They already burned everything they don't possess in their vault in the Vatican.

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One VERY interesting "conspiracy theory" that speaks to this is with regards to special geographical locations on earth that could hold knowledge or power. In the US and Canada for example, many of these sites suddenly find themselves in the middle of a "native land claim" or the government inexplicably includes such sites within borders "protected" from regular individuals from investigating. These sites become "sacred" and NO research or investigation ever happens. The government retains control and effectively smokescreens the very existence of such areas. It feeds into certain social narratives and the controversy surrounding these narratives further smokescreens the issues. Simultaneously these groups are being used to facilitate these activities.



I wonder what gives places their power? Do you think it is something geological, or because of powerful events that transpired in times long past, which we all faintly remember. (Either from previous lives, or due to some kind of connection to ancestors ? or both: reincarnation into our own family lines?)


Do you think the Christians/Marxists are trying to do like what De Beers does with diamonds, gathering them all in their vaults so they can control the supply world wide?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers

Except in this case, they want a monopoly on magick?




Fand wrote:

Yes, we must understand our enemy, and the first step to that is in acknowledging that the enemy is so much more than just the church. Religion is just a tool, just one head of the beast. Cut it off and another grows in its place, as stigmandr alluded to. We can see this already in motion with the crumbling of Christianity in many ways while simultaneously, political correctness and social Marxism rise in its place. Christianity was never intended to make people more moral... Only to make them believe they were moral as justification for whatever acts the sheep were commanded to commit. Now the same is happening amongst the politically far left. The sheep have been herded from belief in a god telling them what to do, to politics telling them what to do. Is allows for a whole new level of debauchery, as there is no moral compass to give people pause to think. The witch hunt won't come from the Christian front this time, but from a political one: one that seeks to silence and oppress all thought that does not adhere to the hivemind.



In a hive all the drones are there to help the queen reproduce. There is no real equality. The Drones are socially equal with each other, but the queen is certainly not socially equal with the drones.

They're equal insofar as they are all expendable. Their social value is zero.

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As I have already stressed, I agree that secrecy is crucial. But let me say it again: secrecy is not the same as doing nothing! Act in secret, from the shadows, never showing who we are, who we are affiliated with, whom we work for...etc, etc...
A full frontal battle was already attempted, when a certain individual/group of individuals clearly saw the enemy for what it was, or as clearly as is possible. They took on that for, to their peril, which culminated in a tragic world war.


Yeah. They tried to fight in the open, and they were defeated from the shadows.

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So, no, this is not what I am suggesting needs to be done... Or rather, a major polical move of this kind should not be the real battle. Something mainstream like that could do wonders to draw eyes elsewhere, while rallying and motivating the masses, while the real work to weed out the evil goes unhindered behind the scenes.
This is what Adi did, but he made the mistake of letting it be know who was doing the weeding out, rather than have a shadow force that no one knew about.
Also, it is a mistake to put forward your best man into the limelight. That's not the person you want to lose if all goes to shite.
So, my idea would be a "war" on two fronts. One hidden, one seen, but never showing who you work for/with.
But my ultimate point here, is that as it currently stands, we are a part of nothing, we are essentially doing nothing, while tptb push ever nearer to game over. Anyone who wants to make whatever kind of difference they can in tipping the scales should secretly band together and start planning. What can we do? We can't know that or safely discuss that on a forum which is visible to prying eyes.
If there is an organized OB that we are not privy to, and not wanted by, then let us not be completely idol, but rather branch off on our own and come up with a plan for how we can assist in the fight against tptb. Even if it is in a passive way, so be it. There are ways we can weaken them, without resorting to violence and crime. The first would be making ourselves as little dependant upon their most valuable tool of control: money!


Why bother with the public part?

The majority of the sheep aren't worth trying to "red pill". Even if it worked, they would be sub-standard participants. Thralls need a religion of thralls.

It may be the case that hundreds of years of strong selection have produced a generation that is overwhelmingly not fit on a genetic level. Incapable of being good at anything except what they already do: be slaves. Be pathetic. Go on welfare and have more babies.

Rather than let the few who can still be Jarls go extinct, we ought to try to carve out a place for them to survive, and hopefully grow.

But reaching those who can be Jarls has to be done in a way where it doesn't come to the attention of the thralls. The Xian thralls hate Jarls. They believe the Jarls will harm them. The psychopaths mentioned by StigandrMelrakki tell them this is so. Because with the Jarls gone, the psychopaths are in charge.

It's like if you watch the "Transformers" movies. Starscream is in charge whenever Megatron is gone. So maybe Starscream starts going around telling the other Decepticons that Megatron has struck a deal to kill them? Then he can be in charge indefinitely.


Tue May 23, 2017 1:52 am
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
8-J, I agree that the majority of the masses cannot be red pilled. In fact, I strongly believe those who can be, were never really thralls to begin with. Sometimes, a person just needs the right circumstances to wake them up, but most cannot and will not wake up. They are a lost cause, useful only so far as they can be manipulated or driven into a frenzy.

So, how to carve out a place for the jarls? It sounds like in many ways, we see eye to eye, so let us try!

How do we go about bringing them together? To avoid being seen, a solution has already been provided. See the link I posted.
What would the next step be?


Tue May 23, 2017 7:33 am
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
I've heard I said that the world wars weakened the German people, but I'd go further to say it weakened all of the European people who participated in those wars. By sending off their best men to fight and to die in two wars of unprecedented scale, and within such a small frame of time, Europe no doubt lost a good number of the jarls who remained. And centuries of persecution by the Church, even the monarchies which enslaved people, would have already reduced the number of free men and women to only a small scattering, and most probably not of the same caliber as those who came before them.
When you say strong selection may have rendered the masses slaves, it seems more like the deliberate breeding of slave. With livestock or dogs, you breed out the traits you don't want, such as aggression. You make them tame and docile, and easy to control.
By killing off society's strongest people, they have essentially bred a society of good slaves. I've wondered if maybe this doesn't have something to do with the study of genetics and the obsession with taking our blood at every opportunity, testing the blood of every single newborn, etc, etc. Are they looking for genetic markers that could show if someone might give tptb a little trouble? Or is it something more complex than that?


Tue May 23, 2017 7:52 am
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