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Brothers and Sisters I have been away for a while, I have plenty of excuses from back to back deployments, to a transfer with in the military, to the fact that I was angry of how our world sees the modern warrior as someone who just wakes up to the battle of a normal day. The real reason is I just needed to find my path again, which I did and it brought me back here. Believe me thou I still have my strong opinions on snowflakes and what the real definition of a warrior is!
That's not why I am writing this message, I have been in the military since 1999, left for 3 years to join a group and fight pirates off the coast of Somalia and then re-enlisted. During my time I have convinced members of my family to serve and serve they did with honor and dignity I am so proud of all of their accomplishments and the stories there troops tell me of them. One of them did 6 tours in various war zones and became a PTSD councler after his tour as a drill Staff Sergeant. So proud. Two weeks ago he took his own life and left his wife and kids alone, I haven't expressed my self to anyone until now, I don't know how to take what he did, grandparents blame me for talking him in to joining over 10 years ago. I have strong feelings about suicide and I am so very angry at myself for being angry at what he did.
I know this seems just like a bunch of verbal scrap, what does Odin think of suicide is bad or what. How do you all feel about it. How would you honor his name when you are so angry?


Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:11 pm
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For any moral issue, our general rule is this: What is born of strength is good--what is born of weakness is bad.

Watch the end of the sci-film "Independence Day." That suicide came from strength.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyOTaHRBTXc


Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:37 pm
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Cdnbirdgunner wrote:
Brothers and Sisters I have been away for a while, I have plenty of excuses from back to back deployments, to a transfer with in the military, to the fact that I was angry of how our world sees the modern warrior as someone who just wakes up to the battle of a normal day. The real reason is I just needed to find my path again, which I did and it brought me back here. Believe me thou I still have my strong opinions on snowflakes and what the real definition of a warrior is!
That's not why I am writing this message, I have been in the military since 1999, left for 3 years to join a group and fight pirates off the coast of Somalia and then re-enlisted. During my time I have convinced members of my family to serve and serve they did with honor and dignity I am so proud of all of their accomplishments and the stories there troops tell me of them. One of them did 6 tours in various war zones and became a PTSD councler after his tour as a drill Staff Sergeant. So proud. Two weeks ago he took his own life and left his wife and kids alone, I haven't expressed my self to anyone until now, I don't know how to take what he did, grandparents blame me for talking him in to joining over 10 years ago. I have strong feelings about suicide and I am so very angry at myself for being angry at what he did.
I know this seems just like a bunch of verbal scrap, what does Odin think of suicide is bad or what. How do you all feel about it. How would you honor his name when you are so angry?


We all have a path and a fate waiting for us. We alone are responsible for that, your friend made his choice; don't live your life feeling regret for his choice.

Whether the manner in which he ended his life was honorable or not, I don't know the details what I do know if you had and still have respect for him and that is what should be focused on.

You can't change the fact that he is dead, the only thing you can control is how you act within the situation, so like OB said act from a position of strength and if he is your friend do him honor in the afterlife and ensure his family knows his true character so his end doesn't define his whole life.


Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:48 pm
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Thank you OB and Bjorn for your words. I do understand what you are saying and I will honor him and take care of my little cousins I will make sure they know who there father was. I will see him again


Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:12 pm
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Cdnbirdgunner wrote:
Brothers and Sisters I have been away for a while, I have plenty of excuses from back to back deployments, to a transfer with in the military, to the fact that I was angry of how our world sees the modern warrior as someone who just wakes up to the battle of a normal day. The real reason is I just needed to find my path again, which I did and it brought me back here. Believe me thou I still have my strong opinions on snowflakes and what the real definition of a warrior is!
That's not why I am writing this message, I have been in the military since 1999, left for 3 years to join a group and fight pirates off the coast of Somalia and then re-enlisted. During my time I have convinced members of my family to serve and serve they did with honor and dignity I am so proud of all of their accomplishments and the stories there troops tell me of them. One of them did 6 tours in various war zones and became a PTSD councler after his tour as a drill Staff Sergeant. So proud. Two weeks ago he took his own life and left his wife and kids alone, I haven't expressed my self to anyone until now, I don't know how to take what he did, grandparents blame me for talking him in to joining over 10 years ago. I have strong feelings about suicide and I am so very angry at myself for being angry at what he did.
I know this seems just like a bunch of verbal scrap, what does Odin think of suicide is bad or what. How do you all feel about it. How would you honor his name when you are so angry?


Some followers of Wotan follow the "9 Charges." #8 goes "I will honor the straw dead, the sea dead, the sword dead." Honor the man's life. If suicide is sometimes ok, your kinsman has nothing to fear. If it is not, there is nothing one can do for him. You can only stand by his family.


Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:37 pm
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Cdnbirdgunner wrote:
Brothers and Sisters I have been away for a while, I have plenty of excuses from back to back deployments, to a transfer with in the military, to the fact that I was angry of how our world sees the modern warrior as someone who just wakes up to the battle of a normal day. The real reason is I just needed to find my path again, which I did and it brought me back here. Believe me thou I still have my strong opinions on snowflakes and what the real definition of a warrior is!
That's not why I am writing this message, I have been in the military since 1999, left for 3 years to join a group and fight pirates off the coast of Somalia and then re-enlisted. During my time I have convinced members of my family to serve and serve they did with honor and dignity I am so proud of all of their accomplishments and the stories there troops tell me of them. One of them did 6 tours in various war zones and became a PTSD councler after his tour as a drill Staff Sergeant. So proud. Two weeks ago he took his own life and left his wife and kids alone, I haven't expressed my self to anyone until now, I don't know how to take what he did, grandparents blame me for talking him in to joining over 10 years ago. I have strong feelings about suicide and I am so very angry at myself for being angry at what he did.
I know this seems just like a bunch of verbal scrap, what does Odin think of suicide is bad or what. How do you all feel about it. How would you honor his name when you are so angry?


I for one, respect your family member. I too served in the military for 27 years and fought in 3 different wars spread out over 3 decades. He was a warrior; and I believe you don't necessarily have to die in battle, but live with honor and as a warrior in your heart (even if not in actuality), to join the Gods after you pass. A lot of cultures consider suicide an honorable death, don't be too down on him.

If I were you, I would think he was a lot like Alexander the Great: "For when Alexander reached the ocean he wept, for alas, he had no more worlds to conquer".

He had reached his end, "his ocean", and like Alexander, he had no more worlds to conquer...... I will blot to the Gods tonight and sing songs to your family member as they dine in Valhalla!


Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:28 am
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Cdnbirdgunner wrote:
Thank you OB and Bjorn for your words. I do understand what you are saying and I will honor him and take care of my little cousins I will make sure they know who there father was. I will see him again



These are strong words. My best wishes to you in this difficult time and I hope you can find your way further down the brotherhood path in time.


Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:49 pm
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BjornBerserk wrote:
These are strong words. My best wishes to you in this difficult time and I hope you can find your way further down the brotherhood path in time.


My path is clear, again I want to thank you for these strong words. At times we need someone to just say it straight and not sugar coat it. I know my role in all this now


Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:25 pm
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I don't know if it is appropriate for me to say anything in suicide discussions. I've been suicidal for half of my life. And I would apologize if anything I say is unhelpful.

Sometimes a person is made to feel so much regret that they feel their own life is the only price they can pay to square things.

We subject our soldiers to terrible guilt. The deployments for special forces have been excessive for nearly a decade. Spending almost their whole lives in continuous battle. Every decision is scrutinized and second guessed by people who are looking from hindsight and demanding that the soldier answer why he couldn't see in foresight the events they now see.

Because they are away from home so long, they don't even get to feel like good fathers. "If only I had been there" echos in many minds. But that is the same as asking "If only I had defied orders."

I've never faced that situation, exactly, or even approximately. I have a general picture, and that's it. What I can see from my limited vantage point is that guilt is a weapon, and someone is trying to kill our soldiers off.

We often speak of thralls and warriors. But there is a third group: the sorcerer. The sorcerer doesn't fight you directly. The sorcerer sends others. Or sometimes, he convinces you to kill yourself. It's not necessarily about "magic" as such. It's much more sinister. Few who I would consider a "sorcerer" actually can do magic as you would understand it.

Guilt can be thought of as a powerful magic. It is best replaced with anger. Anger will keep you alive. By anger you may even thrive. Just be careful to direct that anger not at yourself or your friends, but at your real enemy. (Whoever treats soldiers with disrespect, or thinks they need to be overdeployed.... etc....)


Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:20 pm
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8-j wrote:
I don't know if it is appropriate for me to say anything in suicide discussions. I've been suicidal for half of my life. And I would apologize if anything I say is unhelpful.

Sometimes a person is made to feel so much regret that they feel their own life is the only price they can pay to square things.

We subject our soldiers to terrible guilt. The deployments for special forces have been excessive for nearly a decade. Spending almost their whole lives in continuous battle. Every decision is scrutinized and second guessed by people who are looking from hindsight and demanding that the soldier answer why he couldn't see in foresight the events they now see.

Because they are away from home so long, they don't even get to feel like good fathers. "If only I had been there" echos in many minds. But that is the same as asking "If only I had defied orders."

I've never faced that situation, exactly, or even approximately. I have a general picture, and that's it. What I can see from my limited vantage point is that guilt is a weapon, and someone is trying to kill our soldiers off.

We often speak of thralls and warriors. But there is a third group: the sorcerer. The sorcerer doesn't fight you directly. The sorcerer sends others. Or sometimes, he convinces you to kill yourself. It's not necessarily about "magic" as such. It's much more sinister. Few who I would consider a "sorcerer" actually can do magic as you would understand it.

Guilt can be thought of as a powerful magic. It is best replaced with anger. Anger will keep you alive. By anger you may even thrive. Just be careful to direct that anger not at yourself or your friends, but at your real enemy. (Whoever treats soldiers with disrespect, or thinks they need to be overdeployed.... etc....)


I second what you say about anger. Our culture is ashamed of strength and blinds us to the vitalistic side of anger


Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:30 am
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CdnBirdGunner:

I am sorry for your loss.

Welcome back. I always enjoy your comments and insights.

Look forward to hearing from you in the threads!

Cheers


Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:36 am
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Cdnbirdgunner wrote:
Brothers and Sisters I have been away for a while, I have plenty of excuses from back to back deployments, to a transfer with in the military, to the fact that I was angry of how our world sees the modern warrior as someone who just wakes up to the battle of a normal day. The real reason is I just needed to find my path again, which I did and it brought me back here. Believe me thou I still have my strong opinions on snowflakes and what the real definition of a warrior is!
That's not why I am writing this message, I have been in the military since 1999, left for 3 years to join a group and fight pirates off the coast of Somalia and then re-enlisted. During my time I have convinced members of my family to serve and serve they did with honor and dignity I am so proud of all of their accomplishments and the stories there troops tell me of them. One of them did 6 tours in various war zones and became a PTSD councler after his tour as a drill Staff Sergeant. So proud. Two weeks ago he took his own life and left his wife and kids alone, I haven't expressed my self to anyone until now, I don't know how to take what he did, grandparents blame me for talking him in to joining over 10 years ago. I have strong feelings about suicide and I am so very angry at myself for being angry at what he did.
I know this seems just like a bunch of verbal scrap, what does Odin think of suicide is bad or what. How do you all feel about it. How would you honor his name when you are so angry?


I am sorry for your loss my brother.

PTSD can be a terrible burden, the psychological wounds from the battlefield can be just as deadly as physical ones and they are insidious in their manifestation. While you are likely to never know the true depth of his pain, it is likely that he sought not only his own freedom from suffering but probably also freedom for those he loved (it is extremely common for veterans to project their emotions onto those closest to them, adding to their feelings of guilt).

I am not sure of your exact feelings about suicide but my personal view is that there is no shame in it. It is extremely unfortunate and my heart goes out to you and all of his family.


Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:23 pm
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SonOfTheNorse wrote:
Cdnbirdgunner wrote:
Brothers and Sisters I have been away for a while, I have plenty of excuses from back to back deployments, to a transfer with in the military, to the fact that I was angry of how our world sees the modern warrior as someone who just wakes up to the battle of a normal day. The real reason is I just needed to find my path again, which I did and it brought me back here. Believe me thou I still have my strong opinions on snowflakes and what the real definition of a warrior is!
That's not why I am writing this message, I have been in the military since 1999, left for 3 years to join a group and fight pirates off the coast of Somalia and then re-enlisted. During my time I have convinced members of my family to serve and serve they did with honor and dignity I am so proud of all of their accomplishments and the stories there troops tell me of them. One of them did 6 tours in various war zones and became a PTSD councler after his tour as a drill Staff Sergeant. So proud. Two weeks ago he took his own life and left his wife and kids alone, I haven't expressed my self to anyone until now, I don't know how to take what he did, grandparents blame me for talking him in to joining over 10 years ago. I have strong feelings about suicide and I am so very angry at myself for being angry at what he did.
I know this seems just like a bunch of verbal scrap, what does Odin think of suicide is bad or what. How do you all feel about it. How would you honor his name when you are so angry?


I for one, respect your family member. I too served in the military for 27 years and fought in 3 different wars spread out over 3 decades. He was a warrior; and I believe you don't necessarily have to die in battle, but live with honor and as a warrior in your heart (even if not in actuality), to join the Gods after you pass. A lot of cultures consider suicide an honorable death, don't be too down on him.

If I were you, I would think he was a lot like Alexander the Great: "For when Alexander reached the ocean he wept, for alas, he had no more worlds to conquer".

He had reached his end, "his ocean", and like Alexander, he had no more worlds to conquer...... I will blot to the Gods tonight and sing songs to your family member as they dine in Valhalla!


I am also a veteran.
I can not say for certain what happens when people die. I believe it is different for each person. I have looked at what all different religions have to say about suicide. Half of the people in each respective religion disagree anyways. If people were really honest with themselves and everyone else, they would say - I don't know what happens in the afterlife, because I have not been there OR do not remember being there, and can not verify it with my own first hand knowledge.
I have my theories.
In my personal opinion, some suicide is honorable and some is not. I agree with SonoftheNorse statement. A man who volunteers to join the military during a time of war #1 is not a coward, which is a common, mostly false accusation of people who commit suicide.
Secondly, there is a such thing as mental afflictions whether you call it sorcery, mental illness, or what have you. Our path is in harmony with science. If a doctor (Scientist) says that someone is mentally ill and they commit suicide - is that any different than dying from cancer or kidney failure?
Personally, I would never be able to be a PTSD counselor. As someone with PTSD - there is no way I could sit there and listen to other peoples traumatic experiences without it taking me to a certain place in my head that I don't want to be. It seems to me that there is another way to look at this situation than to look at it through angry lenses.
A man volunteers during a time of war for military service - honor point 1
He does 6 tours- honor points 6 + hero status, because 6 tours is not the norm.
Then despite the horrid things he has seen and possibly had to do, he sacrifices his own mental health to be there for others- even more honor points and hero status.
Now a man decides that his purpose is done on earth and he goes to see what is next.
....................................................................................................................................

I recall hearing stories about Germanic tribes women going to battle with their husbands and then killing themselves when their husband dies in battle. Was it out of mourning or was it to keep the enemy from stealing the womans honor?
...............................................................................................................................

There are so many variables. I would not worry about your kinsman. He sounds like a hero who was ready to see something he had never seen before.


Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:17 am
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