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Odin in a dress. 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:43 am
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Okay, now that I have your attention, I am sorry to inform you that the title was not just for shock value. I was inspired to make this thread by the thread from General area about those christian nazis slandering Ol' One-Eye. But, and this is where I'm probably going to get large heavy things thrown at my head, they were not entirely wrong. Hear me out.

Odin learned a womans magic, a magic that does infact involve cross-dressing and often times trully acting as a woman, in all ways. Now, I am not blaspheming at this point, only stating facts. Don't believe it, look it up. At this is an issue many choose not to face. Odin is in ways a god of transgendered practices.

Think about it. In all things he rules over, they involves loosing ones self. Loosings oneself in a fit of the gangr, loosing ones self in intoxication, in inspiration as you write a poem. And what better way to lose ones self than to lose even your gender identity if but for a time? If you think about it, it does fit.

Now at this point I should probably be prepared to avoid the large heavy things that are about to be thrown.


Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:31 pm
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Hail,

I would love to give you the fight you are expecting but, alas I too have read the same things about Odin and about the magic as I have been heavly into the study of the Runes to include their use in Magic and what you say is correct to my knowledge. And let us not forget there are a host of formerly living Giants who found out that a cross dressing almost married Thor does in fact have a Wrathful side. :twisted:

I am thinking you can expect more of a philosophical discussion than a bashing over this post Brother


Wassail!


Last edited by beowulf_firestorm on Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:49 pm
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Ulfhedinn, I think you have been reading New Age texts.

In warlike societies, magic is considered skill best practiced by women because they are somehow more in touch with the arcane or the occult.

In traditional societies, functions tend to be gender specific.

But that does not mean that a god practicing magic dresses as a woman or becomes a woman!

What the Norse texts mean is that just as in our society it takes a REAL man to remain masculine while eating quiche, only a manly god could remain manly while working sorcery.

I assure you, Odin does not watch the "Bravo" channel!


Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:49 pm
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Hail Brothers,

I concur with Odinbrotherhood on his excellent thoughts about the role of magic in a warriors society being seen by some as a womans pursuit over warfare, but obviously our warriors practiced magic as well. I am interested in seeing the sources that my brother wolf refers to howevger, (I state with hand holding object to throw) :twisted:

Please, if you would, show where you have seen this. I have not. I do not say that you err, only I have never seen this presented.

And note, all are welcome to speak as they choose brother, fear no objects thrown unless we are in the bererker training area, but, on this one, I must admit to being tempted. :wink:


Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:56 pm
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How many times must I tell people that it is a kilt not a dress!!!


Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:27 am
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HAHAHA!

Wow Brother Haggis... I actually laighed for the first time in a long time...

Only a fellow Scot could get that humor!

Indeed, I too have said that and cracked a few heads for saying such to me!

Thanks for the chuckle Brother, it was much welocmed! :D


Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:17 am
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I'm not a Scot and I got that humor, :lol:


Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:30 am
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I can't cite specific sources I'm afraid, this just comes from my study into seidh. From what I've read the only men that practiced it were ergi (meaning of the word debatable). Now magic in general was indeed practiced by many, but seidh was specifically a womans craft. I'm not questioning his masculinity, I'm just saying that it seems perfectly plausible.


Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:26 am
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Haggis wrote:
How many times must I tell people that it is a kilt not a dress!!!


HAH,HAH,HAH,HAH!!! By the Beard of Thor; that was too funny!!! I needed that!


Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:40 am
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ha, ha, ha! Still laughing over Haggis's comment. Think about this...It is Odin AND Loki who are the tricksters of the pantheon who use various aspects of "magic" to accomplish thier goals and agenda. While I personnaly have no desire to throw on my wife's clothing..."a horrid sight it would be indeed," I do find the topic of Seithr very interesting and intend on studying it when I return to Vinland soon.


Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:47 am
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The last time my wife asked me to take off her clothes... She was mad I was wearing them.

Just kidding.

I can't honestly imagine the mighty Odin cross-dressing, but hey, each to their own as they say. I was at a Burns Night the other day with some extremely tough dress wearing Scotsmen, so I think Haggis is right on the money.


Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:21 am
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Ulfhedinn, I suspect that any reference to cross dressing comes from some New-Age text by a Norse wiccan.

Many modern works are not well researched. In the extreme north--among the Innuit--everyone wears trousers because it is so cold. This does not make the women transvestites!

I should also point out that to the Greeks and Romans trousers were simply barbarian clothing. They had nothing to do with gender.


Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:13 am
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Quote:
However the passage in which Snorri describes Odin's shamanic skills ends with the memorable words--

"But the use of this magic is accompanied by so great a degree of effemination (ergi) that men were of the opinion that they could not give themselves up to it without shame, so that it was to the priestesses that it was taught."
(Ynglingasaga: 7)


Source: http://www.seidh.org/articles/sex-status-seidh.html[/quote]


Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:23 am
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Ulfhedinn wrote:
I can't cite specific sources I'm afraid, this just comes from my study into seidh. From what I've read the only men that practiced it were ergi (meaning of the word debatable). Now magic in general was indeed practiced by many, but seidh was specifically a womans craft. I'm not questioning his masculinity, I'm just saying that it seems perfectly plausible.


So are you trying to tell us that you wear a 'dress' when you pratice your seidh, now just so you know I am not questioing your masculinty, but it seems perfectly plausible.


Glad to hear a gave a few of you a good laugh.

Now I am not a big man, 5' 11'' and around 220, but have been known to growl at people after the 'dress' coment. They usually get the message and walk away.


Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:01 am
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Quote:
So are you trying to tell us that you wear a 'dress' when you pratice your seidh, now just so you know I am not questioing your masculinty, but it seems perfectly plausible.



okay, so the dress part was just for shock value and to get peoples attention. But if you can't laugh at the thought of Odin in a pretty pink dress something is terribly wrong..either that or I have a heavy smiting coming my way, but at least I'll die laughing :lol:

Anyway, I was not accually implying that dress was worn, but I was saying that one must feminize themselves in the practice, at least while performing the magic if not at any other time.


Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:07 am
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I tend tolook at it this way-
Think about the society at the time. Most men were either warriors, hunters, workers or craftsman. Women apparently held the majority in the practice of Seithr and for a man to show an interest in the art would likly be considered stepping outside those societal and gender boundries traditionally held by our ancestors. That doesn't necessarily make him OR require him to be effiminate, but he would almost definately be viewed as such such by other males. On the flip side, I can imagine certain aspects of the training would involve one to think outside the box, possibly from a females perspective. This point of view might actually be necessary to gain some insight. The same can be considered of a female who wishes to pursue the life of a warrior. I personnaly have no argument with that although there are some who would argue against woman studying the arts of combat! To them I say- I would match the ferocity and knife handling skills of my wife over most men despite thier superior strength. It is the Will that wins battles and not strength alone. Remember Freya collects half the Battle-Dead and she is also a teacher of Seithr having taught Odin the art.


Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:43 pm
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Hail,

Indeed Fire in the Heart,

Many cultures world wide know the power of training women for battle. As to wives, my ex on PMS, would be a match for anyone if she had a knife! :wink: All kidding aside, our lore and our cultural history abound with female warriors. I have no qualms with that at all. I also have no qualms with being a warrior and practicing magic. I do this myself.


Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:02 am
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Fire does make a good point. I never really thought about it in that perspective. hmm..oh well, live and learn. Thanks for the insight.


Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:44 am
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There are female warriors in the culture of our ancestors, all one has to do is read about the exploits of the 'Shield Madiens' and are not the 'Valkries' warriors? And do not other cultures also have female warriors, look back to WWII the Soviets had many female soldiers on the front lines even one of them was one of their best snipers. The Israel military to this day has female s in combat positions to protect their land.

Now not every woman was 'Shield Madien', but those that showed exceptional quality and training with weapons. And would not using magic on the battlefield be using an advantage?


Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:52 pm
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Quote:
And would not using magic on the battlefield be using an advantage?


Y'all make it out to sound like even the slightest sign of non-manlyman-ness is an utter blasphemy. I wasn't implying that in the least. I personally see no issue with it, or those that chose to do such in their practices. But then I did work alot as a chaote not long ago, so that may be why I am so loose with magical practices.


Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:46 pm
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