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Rationalizing Myths 
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History tells us that Hecataeus was the first Greek who admitted that he found the Greek myths "funny." He tried to invent rationalist explanations for the gods.

Such rationalizations, of course, become a slippery slope. Soon, in today's world, the gods can be turned into Jungian archetypes or metaphors.

The Odin Brotherhood, however, asserts the literal existence of the gods and goddesses. They exist in our universe and often visit here....


Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:25 am
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Fascinating post!

To all the gods and goddesses who visit here, I greet thee!


Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:44 am
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"All Gods are within you"

Could it be the greatest lie of all times?


Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:29 pm
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As OBL says, it is a slippery slope that diverges into two piles; that of the logicians and atheists, the other being those who seek to undermine our ways in favor of their own.

I have seen this in many so-called 'modern' Witches and other pagan folk of the modern era. They begin attempting this so-called 'rationalization' of the Elder Ones and at first begin to apply animistic arguments and philosophies. Later I have seen it devolve into dualism and ultimately the "All gods and goddesses are the face of but one god" nonsense spewed by frightened little sheeplings who are afraid of the wild night.

Our Gods and Goddesses - in my own not so humble view - are unique individuals - real beings. They are not figments of the Jungian consciousness, the Freudian superego or personified elements of nature.



Coyote


Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:29 pm
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*DELETED LIKE STORMDANCERS


Last edited by Vindhlér on Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:04 pm
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"All Gods are within you"

Certainly is the greatest hubris of all time.


Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:53 pm
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Coyote wrote:
I have seen this in many so-called 'modern' Witches and other pagan folk of the modern era. They begin attempting this so-called 'rationalization' of the Elder Ones and at first begin to apply animistic arguments and philosophies. Later I have seen it devolve into dualism and ultimately the "All gods and goddesses are the face of but one god" nonsense spewed by frightened little sheeplings who are afraid of the wild night.


I have always had a problem with this aspect of so many followers of Neopaganism. It is as if they really can't get away from that monotheistic programming. It is ingrained too deeply. They just can't believe that there are many gods, so they have to water it down to "All gods and goddesses are faces of the one god."

I had an interesting conversation with a co-worker this week. In talking about our company "holiday party" I expressed displeasure at a certain blatantly Xian song that was performed there, saying that those were not my beliefs. It took a few days, but he eventually asked me what my beliefs were. I stated that I was a polytheistic pagan, which is usually all that I will reveal to people, but that had I been Jewish or Muslim or any faith other than Xian, I would have found the song offensive.

There ensued a friendly discussion of why I believed as I do. He being Xian found it hard to understand my polytheistic beliefs. So I quoted him a couple of verses from HIS OWN BIBLE that state very clearly that their god is but one among many. I will not quote from their book here, but suffice it to say I do know their book well enough to use it. He became quite puzzled, as if he had never thought of those verses in that way, and went off telling me I had "given him much to think about."

~Stormdancer
...planting seeds of discontent in as many herd-minds as possible


Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:56 pm
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That was a funny tale, Stormy.

It always amuses me when the herdlings own distorted texts come back to bite 'em in the butt.


Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:17 am
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Stormdancer, I like to use this quote from John 10:34 with the followers of the Galilean.

Quote:
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


Christians, who never read their own Bible carefully, have no idea that not only does the Bible say that there are many gods, but humans are gods!


Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:38 am
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OBL, that's a good one. I had forgotten that one!

I usually use:

Quote:
Thou shalt have no other gods before me


Very telling that even in the Ten Commandments the desert god does not say he is the ONLY god, or that the others are false gods. A few lines later the desert god states he is a jealous god. Hmmm...he would not be jealous if there were not actually other gods out there he was afraid his followers would follow.

Quote:
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness


Not after MY image, but after OUR image...and who is he talking to with this OUR speech? The other gods......

And for any who wonder why I am so familiar with their book, I will remind you...it is good to know your enemy...even better to know his weaknesses.

~Stormdancer


Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:15 pm
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There is a theory that "Elohim," which means gods, is not actually a name for yahweh, as the Christians assert. Some have argued that Yahweh was simply one of the Elohim, and that he was given the Hebrews as his "people," while other Elohim got other "peoples."

Christians try to claim that Yahweh is a universal god, but I suspect that he is simply a national god for the Jewish people.


Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:39 am
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Oh, don't get me started on the Elohim....

*Elohim* is a PLURAL noun. So it refers to gods, not A god. Zecharia Sitchin translates *elohim* as "Those Who From Heaven (or the Sky) Came Down."

Anyone who has not read Sitchin should at least browse a couple...his theories can blow your mind, though his area of study is the Sumerian and Egyptian gods.

~Stormdancer


Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:58 pm
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Zecharia Sitchin is one of those chaps who churns out book after book without new material, and I have to confess that I find that undesirable.

Stormdancer, if you had to suggest one of his books, which one is best?


Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:52 am
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I personally, try to stay away from materials which reference the Judaic or other Abrahamic myths.

As a young man I read their holy books and indeed as I studied ceremonial magic to a degree as well, I was rather repulsed by the amount that Abrahamic thought had insinuated itself therein.


Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:29 pm
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But, Coyote, should we not know our adversaries?

Recently, the Christian culture we live in has become so bizarre that it can produce oddities such as this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Jesus


Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:24 am
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very real, tis true, someday, they might come, to see you


Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:48 am
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I'm content to rationalize up to this point: If the idea of aliens existing and possessing advanced technology is reasonable, then clearly there is no reason why the gods should not exist.

If they are from another world then they are, by definition, aliens. I like to think of their magic as being simply another kind of technology, very different from our own. Clearly it operates on a very different set of laws, but those laws are still based on nature. Just like the laws that human technology bases itself upon are laws taken from nature.


Monotheists, however, believe in a God that is truly supernatural. Rather than making use of the laws of nature, he is supposed to have decreed the laws of nature. The idea of a pantheon of beings weilding that kind of power would be silly. (But the idea of even one being weilding that kind of power is silly also.)

So, in the context of the Xian definition of the word "god", a polytheist is ultimately an atheist. Polytheists don't believe that a being like Jaweh (as the Xians conceive of him) does or even can exist. Although a less powerful being may be pretending to be omnipotent for them.


Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:51 pm
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I suppose that we cannot all be honored with direct instruction from the Gods. I believe that beyond "mere visions", we are expected to seek out the Gods. If we do not go out and meet them as they approach, or invite them in to warm their knees, how can we ever move beyond vain hope and speculation? My Gods continue to evade my open eyes, but I feel as though they are not far from my gaze. I suppose that becomes our quest: to walk their roads until we find them.


Last edited by RedSon on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:41 am
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They are my family- the old ways were specific that these are our ancestors. Those who say there is a wall that cannot be crossed between Gods and men need to be taught about Bragi!

My ancestors inside of me would be a bit odd. Like some sort of weird pregnancy.

Also, unlike monotheism, our Gods only decide to watch our private moments and let us know about it to amuse themselves...

"I'M ON THE TOILET!"

"So? Be happy it isn't a hole in the ground or chamber pot...now then..."


Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:44 am
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Eternal Dawn wrote:
I used to view the gods and goddesses as forces of nature, then archetypes, then beings that we bring to life through ourselves, and finally, as divine physical beings. The gods being anything less than actual conscious beings belittles them. I think we could empirically prove the existence of the gods, but we're not at that level of science yet. Western science focuses solely on outer science, instead of a balance of inner and outer science. Sometimes, due to materialism, scientists themselves miss the divine essence of things they discover. To us, nature itself is divine and magical.


Science, in itself, has reached the level of being a religion in itself...which is a dangerous thing since no thing can be conclusively proven with our limited insight except in that we cannot know anything conclusively.

In antiquity the scholar, the scientist, and the mystic were usually the same person- they were generally the most highly educated in their respective cultures as well as the ones taught literacy and critical thinking.

The price for this was usually always being an "outsider" and unable to relate to the regular struggles and interests of the people they served. Some religions (mostly monotheism) forced them into celibacy. Some cultures only offered this education to the deformed, disabled, or the infertile.

Yet, in Europe, I believe this role was filled most by the Elders who were fortunate enough to live long enough to aquire these skills, but sadly, I am far from certain.


Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:00 pm
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