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Jotuns and Loki 
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Hello everyone its been a while i made a post here.

Listening to a lot of people in community here who complain of others relationship to Loki and Jotuns, like if its a new age kind fo worship.

Curious to see everyone thought on this, i know probably tyrriene might post here.


Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:16 pm
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Flavio_Sverige wrote:
Hello everyone its been a while i made a post here.

Listening to a lot of people in community here who complain of others relationship to Loki and Jotuns, like if its a new age kind fo worship.

Curious to see everyone thought on this, i know probably tyrriene might post here.


It's an individual's relationship to the Gods, and it cannot be quanitified by any "community".

Real Odinist worship Loki, People who like Tom Hiddleston worship Loki. I know I prefer the former, but that doesn't mean I have any control whatsoever over the fruitcakes.

I have a blog on the topic... Everything I have to say on the subject, including the Death of Baldur, is found there.

www.hailloki.wordpress.com

I have two patron Gods, and I was Oathed to Tyr to improve Loki's reputation in the American community (since Europe has no such issues). Unfortunately, there seems not to have been a time limit set for expiration.


Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:38 pm
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Tyrienne wrote:
Flavio_Sverige wrote:
Hello everyone its been a while i made a post here.

Listening to a lot of people in community here who complain of others relationship to Loki and Jotuns, like if its a new age kind fo worship.

Curious to see everyone thought on this, i know probably tyrriene might post here.


It's an individual's relationship to the Gods, and it cannot be quanitified by any "community".

Real Odinist worship Loki, People who like Tom Hiddleston worship Loki. I know I prefer the former, but that doesn't mean I have any control whatsoever over the fruitcakes.

I have a blog on the topic... Everything I have to say on the subject, including the Death of Baldur, is found there.

http://www.hailloki.wordpress.com

I have two patron Gods, and I was Oathed to Tyr to improve Loki's reputation in the American community (since Europe has no such issues). Unfortunately, there seems not to have been a time limit set for expiration.


Interesting material you have and well written. But the people who have done so were actually european.

About the actor and the movie i would not consider people who worship then because of this as true odinist...


Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:31 pm
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Flavio_Sverige wrote:

Interesting material you have and well written. But the people who have done so were actually european.

About the actor and the movie i would not consider people who worship then because of this as true odinist...


My family still speaks German, one side came over to this country in the last 50 years, and Loki worship has not been a problem above that of being a European polytheist to everyone outside of American Asatru- what difference does it make if someone was not raised in Europe if they were raised within their culture?

I have only been treated with disrespect for giving Loki and the Jotunr their due by idiot convert Americans who will likely go back to their simpering Christian ideology and "devils" when they find no devils in Odinism.

I am honestly, inherently, more respectful of people of Europe who claim to follow Odinism. I am a skeptic of Americans who were not raised with the Ancestors in their lives, who never visited a single grave, and who never had to lie about their belief system.

Sure... it's fun to be an Odinist NOW....but try explaining in 3rd grade why Grandma's favorite God is a squirrel. (Ratatosk)


Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:48 pm
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Flavio_Sverige wrote:
Hello everyone its been a while i made a post here.

Listening to a lot of people in community here who complain of others relationship to Loki and Jotuns, like if its a new age kind fo worship.

Curious to see everyone thought on this, i know probably tyrriene might post here.


The main question is this. Why care about what other's believe? Is your own path so boring that it is your business to have this as a concern or does it affect you in some way I am not seeing? Are you oathed to change or improve the situation?

I am far more concerned about Monotheist declaring us "open season" again and outlawing our beliefs and practices.

Otherwise: This topic has no purpose other than seeing me type....
The Odin Brotherhood has stated repeatedly that gives both Odin AND Loki their due officially in these forums...and Hela as well, for that matter.


Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:56 pm
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Tyrienne wrote:
Flavio_Sverige wrote:
Hello everyone its been a while i made a post here.

Listening to a lot of people in community here who complain of others relationship to Loki and Jotuns, like if its a new age kind fo worship.

Curious to see everyone thought on this, i know probably tyrriene might post here.


The main question is this. Why care about what other's believe? Is your own path so boring that it is your business to have this as a concern or does it affect you in some way I am not seeing? Are you oathed to change or improve the situation?

I am far more concerned about Monotheist declaring us "open season" again and outlawing our beliefs and practices.

Otherwise: This topic has no purpose other than seeing me type....
The Odin Brotherhood has stated repeatedly that gives both Odin AND Loki their due officially in these forums...and Hela as well, for that matter.



This is a topic, for discussion their opinion is not the most important thing but for me on how Loki and Jotuns get the wrong view by these people.


Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:22 pm
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It is up to each individual to find their own source of inspiration, examples, and friendship. These things should all be based on the individual's needs, experiences, understanding, disposition, and particular situation/circumstances. There will always be those who are ignorant enough and arrogant enough to think that their way is the appropriate way.


Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:23 pm
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On this point:

Quote:
I have only been treated with disrespect for giving Loki and the Jotunr their due by idiot convert Americans who will likely go back to their simpering Christian ideology and "devils" when they find no devils in Odinism.


You are correct. There are no devils in Odinism, and Loki is certainly no demon.

Having said that, Stephen McNallen has pointed out that SOME Loki-devotees can be problematic because they seem to be more interested in Satanism. These individuals disrespect Loki by their actions.


Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:49 am
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There is no historic evidence to support worship of Loki or the Jotuns, England being the first of the Germanic peoples to convert to Christianity have no stories about Loki. Which either means he is a late addition to Scandinavian/Germanic myth or was a local diety or, highly doubtful, not known to the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. Whichever it is you won't find any place names attributed to him and there was no cult of Loki in those times.

Today Loki and Jotun worshippers exist, as to why they do I can only presume. In the Western world we are surrounded by our creature comforts, central heating, light whenever we need it, the wild animals, generally, are of no threat to us. For the vast majority of Westerners the 'other' world is of no consequence, community is dead, we lead selfish individualistic lives, this way of living is alien to how our ancestors lived except the few who we know were made outlaw. In modern society outlaws are deemed to be 'cool', people like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, Al Capone, et al still capture the imagination and their fame/infamy lives on in books and film. The reality is that these people couldn't exist within the law and brought misery to innocent peoples lives, like Egil and Grettir before them they were the 1%ers. Romantic adaptations of their lives aside they were loners, too cruel to be part of community. Perhaps in some instances the laws of our lands nowadays are just as cruel and there is no doubt that the media and politicians of this world exist solely to make the rich, richer and to oppress the masses. And so being 'cool' is what many aspire to be, but most won't do that outside of the law, we like to be protected, we like stability just as our ancestors did but it is no longer about 'us' rather 'me'. Loki in the myths is the outsider, he is not evil or cruel but he cannot exist within the community, his appeal is more relevant today than in the past.

The Jotuns too are chaotic forces, Jotunheim was on the edges of the known world, they too were outsiders but unlike Loki who was accepted for his cunning ways the Jotuns were not, the were not revered by our ancestors like Thor, our protector, they were the ones who brought chaos to their lives. Respected possibly but not loved. Although I can see why today's Odinists may align themselves to Loki, I am bewildered as to why anyone would with the Jotuns, it makes no sense to me. It's not about ignorance or arrogance or 'one true way', it's about learning and understanding the past and the worldview of our ancestors. I'm not one who believes in instructing others in how they should perceive and practice their relationship with the gods but nobody here I'm sure would have the audacity to tell a muslim all about Islam without researching it thoroughly in the first place. Asking questions is great but you won't get a universal answer from any religion and certainly not those who have chosen the Old Ways, even if their own adaptation has no historic evidence to support it. There really is no right or wrong way.


Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:46 pm
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M1000 wrote:
There is no historic evidence to support worship of Loki or the Jotuns, England being the first of the Germanic peoples to convert to Christianity have no stories about Loki. Which either means he is a late addition to Scandinavian/Germanic myth or was a local diety or, highly doubtful, not known to the Angles, Saxons and Jutes. Whichever it is you won't find any place names attributed to him and there was no cult of Loki in those times.

Today Loki and Jotun worshippers exist, as to why they do I can only presume. In the Western world we are surrounded by our creature comforts, central heating, light whenever we need it, the wild animals, generally, are of no threat to us. For the vast majority of Westerners the 'other' world is of no consequence, community is dead, we lead selfish individualistic lives, this way of living is alien to how our ancestors lived except the few who we know were made outlaw. In modern society outlaws are deemed to be 'cool', people like Jesse James, Billy the Kid, Al Capone, et al still capture the imagination and their fame/infamy lives on in books and film. The reality is that these people couldn't exist within the law and brought misery to innocent peoples lives, like Egil and Grettir before them they were the 1%ers. Romantic adaptations of their lives aside they were loners, too cruel to be part of community. Perhaps in some instances the laws of our lands nowadays are just as cruel and there is no doubt that the media and politicians of this world exist solely to make the rich, richer and to oppress the masses. And so being 'cool' is what many aspire to be, but most won't do that outside of the law, we like to be protected, we like stability just as our ancestors did but it is no longer about 'us' rather 'me'. Loki in the myths is the outsider, he is not evil or cruel but he cannot exist within the community, his appeal is more relevant today than in the past.

The Jotuns too are chaotic forces, Jotunheim was on the edges of the known world, they too were outsiders but unlike Loki who was accepted for his cunning ways the Jotuns were not, the were not revered by our ancestors like Thor, our protector, they were the ones who brought chaos to their lives. Respected possibly but not loved. Although I can see why today's Odinists may align themselves to Loki, I am bewildered as to why anyone would with the Jotuns, it makes no sense to me. It's not about ignorance or arrogance or 'one true way', it's about learning and understanding the past and the worldview of our ancestors. I'm not one who believes in instructing others in how they should perceive and practice their relationship with the gods but nobody here I'm sure would have the audacity to tell a muslim all about Islam without researching it thoroughly in the first place. Asking questions is great but you won't get a universal answer from any religion and certainly not those who have chosen the Old Ways, even if their own adaptation has no historic evidence to support it. There really is no right or wrong way.


Incorrect: It existed in the Finland where he was known as"Lopt" as well as survives in small Baltic minorities including the Dievturiba (if my grandmother is an indication- Loki means "Spring onion" in Latvian...it's Lopt, and he's the God of Heath-fire.)

Just because something exist in a minority does not invalidate it's existence.

A single live Coelecanthe shows the species exists, for example.


Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:24 pm
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I'm interested as to where your research is sourced from, as I believe your comment of 'incorrect' is rather presumptious.

In ON Lopt means 'air'.

Logi means 'flame, fire'.


Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:37 pm
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Where are your sources?

Logi is the Jotun cited to be Wildfire who beat Loki at a eating competition.

Of course a wildfire spreads faster than hearth-fire.

Here is dictionary.com for you there,

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/logi


Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:24 pm
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Simek's Dictionary of Northern Mythology. I think it's widely regarded as the most comprehensive dictionary on this subject.


Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:28 pm
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Yes. Logi and Loki are two different Gods. Logi can sometimes be referred to as "Uthgard-Loki" but it is not spoken the same.


Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:10 am
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Furthermore, Odinism is not a religion, we do not have a "standard" holy text that is universally applicable. We are every. single. European culture who worships Odin/Woten/Odinn/Woden united under a few common terms.

If your brand of Odinism is anti-Loki, that is fine. But Understand that this is not a forum to convert people to your point of view.

I really do not feel the necessity of engaging in a reference-war like I'm back inside of a university/

The rules of this forum:

Loki and Hela are given their due.

Case closed. If you do not like that Loki is worshiped along with the rest of the Jotun-born Aesir, I don't know what to tell you. I am not about to "convert" you to way of my family. My family is my family, your family is yours.

I really see this thread going nowhere except for a bunch of "Oh yeah? Well "THIS" scholar says this..."

And that really has nothing to do with the day to day practice of attempting to gain wisdom, now does it? It seems much more like fighting over antiquity verses the present.

I can tell you Loki has been worshiped, you will not believe me.

You can tell me he isn't- my experience dictates otherwise.

There is no place for this to go except for senseless bickering that will never be conclusively solved since the base argument is on a period of time and area with little documentation except for oral tradition and some old carvings.

There is actually more information on Loki than on Bragi...but that doesn't stop people from honoring Bragi; and he was human once.


Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:31 am
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I have been on this forum a considerable time and am fully aware of the etiquette expected.

'A fool is made more of a fool, when their mouth is more open than their mind.'


Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:58 am
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Eternal Dawn wrote:
We don't worship anyone. The gods and goddesses are elder beings that we seek guidance and inspiration. We do not grovel before them and dismiss ourselves as mere mortals. We are not mere mortals, we are on the path of godhood ourselves. Loki is the trickster, the deceiver that is necessary. Without struggle, there can be no evolution, no improvement. I would not say Loki is a trustworthy figure, but he is not evil, or even ill-mannered, he is just chaotic, that is his nature. Our ancestors did not respect him as one of the gods, but they did have some sort of respect for him, in that they overcame Loki and his illusions, and became divine. Let's just say he's the necessary chaos, but no way would I revere him, his deception caused the death of Balder. Some identify Loki as the Indo-Aryan Maya, the cosmic illusion, and not necessarily a conscious being. But this is difficult to say, and I'm not certain about it.


I wrote on that... here is my insight on the Death of Baldr and Loki's role:

https://hailloki.wordpress.com/2015/10/ ... ldrbaldur/

I agree we do not "worship" in the typical sense of the word, we do not go on bended knee, grovel, nor supplicate. However, in terms of anthropology our practice of honoring our Gods and ancestors counts as a form of worship. It is not the fault of the Norse people that the term "Worship" has meant to most people the very practices we do not condone.

Here is the definition from Merriam-Webster:

wor·ship
ˈwərSHəp/
noun
1.
the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
"the worship of God"
synonyms: reverence, veneration, adoration, glorification, glory, exaltation; More
verb
1.
show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.
"the Maya built jungle pyramids to worship their gods"
synonyms: revere, reverence, venerate, pay homage to, honor, adore, praise, pray to, glorify, exalt, extol...


Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:49 pm
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I have a strong relationship with Skadi. I also have a deep relationship with Odin.

What I have learnt from Skadi is the connection to the wild - to the true, untamed, chaotic wild. Not just in a physical sense, but also emotionally and spiritually. This wildness or chaos is what has shaped the world we live in now. To ignore this chaos is not wise.

What I have learnt from Odin is the hunger for learning. That at no point in our lives should we stop learning. He has also taught me how to deal with conflict, to ensure I make decisions or judgments based on the facts rather than emotion.

For those who are methodical in their learning, there is the chaotic wildness of the jotunn, the Vanir who embody magic, fertility and nature and then the more complex and adversarial Aesir who helped the world in which we live.

Each of them have much to teach us and, in my opinion, to ignore or turn our backs on one or the other of them, is dangerous. As has been said before, there is no good or evil in our gods. There is balance.

Stormr


Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:18 pm
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Possibility of Qualifying Loki as Loci in relation to deception into belief in Two Strand DNA regarding Twelve Strand DNA


Thu May 05, 2016 1:59 pm
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