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Surtr and the Fire Giants 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:54 am
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As is the case this time of year, with more free time my mind tends to wander. I was imagining Ragnarok and I vividly recalled the harbinger Surtr, with his black sooty visage and white hot burning sword heralding the great fire that consumes the world. The thought was so captivating that I immediately began trying to find all I could on Surtr and his fire realm but he is not a very widely mentioned character outside of Ragnarok.

What are your thoughts on Surtr and does anyone know a good source where I might find any more information on him?

Also, is it strange to be so strongly drawn to a Jotnar? Especially one as destructive as Surtr?


Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:33 am
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I wrote the other day a post also mentioning the lack of resourses about the giansts of Fire such as Surtr.

I should say that there are many people close to Jotnar as you might be calling themselves of Jokkatru.

Many of the giants lived amognst the gods and Loki itself were a Jotnar in the end srill in Asagard it all depends on how toyu take it and the experience you take from them, You need to have you own judgment in my opinion


Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:19 pm
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My spouse and I have both had very positive UPG's on Surtr, but we are also unable to find any historical sources regarding Him.

Many Rokkr feel close to Him, it appears- there are many writings on him in blog-form.


Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:17 pm
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Thanks for the input Tyrienne, your comment has led me to do much more research on the Rokkr which was a term I was previously unfamiliar with.


Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:37 am
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Also- oddly enough, you can find a lot of information on Surtr if you know any bikers.

The Pagans and Warlocks who follow Asatru/Odinism both use him as their Patron.


Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:48 am
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Filius Thula wrote:
Thanks for the input Tyrienne, your comment has led me to do much more research on the Rokkr which was a term I was previously unfamiliar with.



It made my day I was able to assist you!


Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:49 am
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Tyrienne wrote:
My spouse and I have both had very positive UPG's on Surtr, but we are also unable to find any historical sources regarding Him.

Many Rokkr feel close to Him, it appears- there are many writings on him in blog-form.


What is rokkr?


Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:49 pm
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Fand wrote:
Tyrienne wrote:
My spouse and I have both had very positive UPG's on Surtr, but we are also unable to find any historical sources regarding Him.

Many Rokkr feel close to Him, it appears- there are many writings on him in blog-form.


What is rokkr?


A Rokkr is one whose primary Gods are among the particular Jotunr associated with Angrboda.


Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:08 am
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Tyrienne wrote:
Fand wrote:
Tyrienne wrote:
My spouse and I have both had very positive UPG's on Surtr, but we are also unable to find any historical sources regarding Him.

Many Rokkr feel close to Him, it appears- there are many writings on him in blog-form.


What is rokkr?


A Rokkr is one whose primary Gods are among the particular Jotunr associated with Angrboda.


Haha! Your answer to my question has led me to yet another question. Angrboda?


Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:29 pm
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Angrboda, the bringer of sorrow, is a Jotun and the mother of Fenrir.


Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:02 am
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Tyrsman wrote:
Angrboda, the bringer of sorrow, is a Jotun and the mother of Fenrir.

Then is she the jotun with whom Loki had children? I think I read that he fathered the Midgard serpent, hel and Fenrir.


Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:13 pm
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Angrboda is from the pantheon Europe worshipped prior to the Aesir- she is known as the Queen of the Iron Wood and a Goddess of wolves as well.

Loki was first married to Glut- who then noted that her Angrboda lusted for him- as Her leader, she gifted Loki to Angrboda as a gift for her "stable of men" and together they produced Fenrir, Jormangandr, and Lady Hel.

Both Jormungandr and Fenrir were born shapeshifters- and both chose to remain in the forms of animals after the abuse of the Aesir and the thrice burning of their mother. (Stopped by Tyr, who then escorted Hel to Helheim as a reincarnation of a prior death Goddess (possibly Eresh-Kegel), rescued infant Fenrir from beating, and released Jormungandr from the sack he was confined into the sea (although some accounts say it was Odin who released Jormungandr).

One way to think of it is this: Glut was the first wife, likely arranged marriage. Angrboda would be like the ruler choosing Loki more in lines as a concubine rather than a love-match. When Loki joined the Aesir, it is said Sigyn was his first love match.

However, I will also state unequivocally that scholarship on this is widely divergent to the point where even different regions of Europe and tribes within those regions have stark contrasts in oral traditions much of the time, especially with the older stories long covered by time and forgetfulness.

For example What is often not mentioned in modern retellings of Loki/Logi is that there was a long period of time of Loki wandering with blood-brother Odin where he was not married to Sigyn. Conversely, other scholars claim that marriages and sexual fidelity in the our ancestral cultural may or may not reflect our current paradigms. Again. Depend on the regions the tales originate, and the bias of those who study and retell these accounts.

Calling him "Oathbreaker" over perceived infidelity is difficult without more evidence although the American Asatru community embraces the writings of a Jewish comic book writer over their own Edda's often...or the work of Michael Crichton.

(I would dearly love to see Stan Lee create a comic as wildly insulting and inaccurate about his own ancestral faith with heroes of the Torah in Spandex and using random violence to solve all conflicts with simplistic dialogue meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator)

There have been promising finds in Finland recently at least confirming that Loki worship existed.

Angrboda, and all of the typically "bad" Jotuns (as per US ignorance), as they are often misperceived are no different in their portrayal as the Abrahamic faiths despise Ishtar, Baal, and Dagon. All Gods who had veneration prior to the conversion via usually violent invasion.

Generally speaking. I find it best that speaking of any power or archetype older than I can comprehend, as a polytheist, I treat the issue with as much respect as I can and as much research as I am able to locate.

However, my Gods are my Gods. All Gods that are worshiped by humans are honored for their own reasons, the Gods of my people are mine as theirs are theirs- Even Jesus is a God, just not the God of my ancestors and folk.


Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:41 am
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Tyrienne wrote:
Angrboda is from the pantheon Europe worshipped prior to the Aesir- she is known as the Queen of the Iron Wood and a Goddess of wolves as well.

Loki was first married to Glut- who then noted that her Angrboda lusted for him- as Her leader, she gifted Loki to Angrboda as a gift for her "stable of men" and together they produced Fenrir, Jormangandr, and Lady Hel.

Both Jormungandr and Fenrir were born shapeshifters- and both chose to remain in the forms of animals after the abuse of the Aesir and the thrice burning of their mother. (Stopped by Tyr, who then escorted Hel to Helheim as a reincarnation of a prior death Goddess (possibly Eresh-Kegel), rescued infant Fenrir from beating, and released Jormungandr from the sack he was confined into the sea (although some accounts say it was Odin who released Jormungandr).

One way to think of it is this: Glut was the first wife, likely arranged marriage. Angrboda would be like the ruler choosing Loki more in lines as a concubine rather than a love-match. When Loki joined the Aesir, it is said Sigyn was his first love match.

However, I will also state unequivocally that scholarship on this is widely divergent to the point where even different regions of Europe and tribes within those regions have stark contrasts in oral traditions much of the time, especially with the older stories long covered by time and forgetfulness.

For example What is often not mentioned in modern retellings of Loki/Logi is that there was a long period of time of Loki wandering with blood-brother Odin where he was not married to Sigyn. Conversely, other scholars claim that marriages and sexual fidelity in the our ancestral cultural may or may not reflect our current paradigms. Again. Depend on the regions the tales originate, and the bias of those who study and retell these accounts.

Calling him "Oathbreaker" over perceived infidelity is difficult without more evidence although the American Asatru community embraces the writings of a Jewish comic book writer over their own Edda's often...or the work of Michael Crichton.

(I would dearly love to see Stan Lee create a comic as wildly insulting and inaccurate about his own ancestral faith with heroes of the Torah in Spandex and using random violence to solve all conflicts with simplistic dialogue meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator)

There have been promising finds in Finland recently at least confirming that Loki worship existed.

Angrboda, and all of the typically "bad" Jotuns (as per US ignorance), as they are often misperceived are no different in their portrayal as the Abrahamic faiths despise Ishtar, Baal, and Dagon. All Gods who had veneration prior to the conversion via usually violent invasion.

Generally speaking. I find it best that speaking of any power or archetype older than I can comprehend, as a polytheist, I treat the issue with as much respect as I can and as much research as I am able to locate.

However, my Gods are my Gods. All Gods that are worshiped by humans are honored for their own reasons, the Gods of my people are mine as theirs are theirs- Even Jesus is a God, just not the God of my ancestors and folk.


Tyrienne, thank you for this info. I am just coming back to this thread to view it from a new perspective which gives it more relevance to my current life.
One question I have, is I was under the impression that sutr and the fire giants were of muspleheim, and the jotuns were of Jotunheim. What am I missing here?


Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:00 pm
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You are correct. Surtr is of Muspelheim- different realms seem to have different types of sentience. For instance, in my family Freyr is the ruler of Alfheim. Most of our Gods historically are said to be descended from the various Jotunr. Where the Jotunr are from can vary.

Tyr, for example, is the son of a frost giant and a fire giant. Some people say that is two different realms, other people say one. I do not honestly have enough knowledge to make an informed opinion- except to hope that as interest in our ways grow, more research and archaeology will be done of our ancestral lands to find the stories we lost to time.


Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:59 pm
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I would like to add one small thing.
Be prepared to be ostracized in the Odinist community if you talk openly about Rokkrtru.
I have found that I have my own beliefs and when in public, I just try not to talk about anything that could be controversial. It is so serious amongst some Asatru that they will never speak to you again if you look at Loki as worthy of veneration.
This is one reason that I am not a member of any national or international organization. I dont like to be told what I am allowed to believe.


Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:51 pm
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Thank you tyrienne, for your input.
I am personally drawn to the dark elf's, on the one hand and the elves on the other, perhaps even more so than the gods. But I have always liked Thor. Njörd seems to be a sort of doppelganger to Mannanan, the Manx sea god, who is the first and only deity to ever really reach out to me. I consider Mannanan as a sort of parton deity for lack of a better word. Loki has always appealed to me, and never felt like the bad guy he's portrayed as. Perhaps that is just the influence of Christianity bastardizing the lore. I like that Loki is a sort of mischief maker.


Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:38 pm
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sweinodinsson wrote:
I would like to add one small thing.
Be prepared to be ostracized in the Odinist community if you talk openly about Rokkrtru.
I have found that I have my own beliefs and when in public, I just try not to talk about anything that could be controversial. It is so serious amongst some Asatru that they will never speak to you again if you look at Loki as worthy of veneration.
This is one reason that I am not a member of any national or international organization. I dont like to be told what I am allowed to believe.


That's how it was for me in the Celtic/Gaelic groups. Only in those groups, they didn't care which gods you venerate, they only care about political correctness and leftist politics. You know, any thing goes type of anti-morality, multiculturalism, etc.


Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:47 pm
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I find that the European Odinist community to less polarized regarding our entire lore- they seem to respect all; whereas here where I am in the USA they create the artificial categories of 'good' vs 'evil' deities.

The rule of thumb for me is that anything that can be called a deity by our ancestors should be at very least respected for their power.


Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:02 am
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Tyrienne wrote:
I find that the European Odinist community to less polarized regarding our entire lore- they seem to respect all; whereas here where I am in the USA they create the artificial categories of 'good' vs 'evil' deities.

The rule of thumb for me is that anything that can be called a deity by our ancestors should be at very least respected for their power.


I think that's a good attitude to take. After all, unless a person has had actual dealings and experiences with a deity, then everything else is just here say. Better to rely on one's own instincts and personal experience than to blindly follow dogma. And like I said, it would not surprise me if much of the lore was tampered with over the many years of Christian conversion to make villains out of some and heroes out of others of the gods and various beings. Winner does write history.


Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:06 am
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