View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:58 pm



Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
The Red PIll 
Author Message

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:08 pm
Posts: 632
I see and hear a lot of people online and in person talk about "Red pilling" people. They want to WAKE PEOPLE UP! I understand the feeling. It is not the way of the Odinist to proselytize. "Red pilling" people about things going on in the world, whether it be immigration issues, government abuse, or religion are performing futile actions, in my opinion.
You can't turn a sheep into a wolf. You can't wake up the walking dead.

I always paraphrase the great Greek stoic philosopher Epictetus by saying, "We can't control what others do, but we can control ourselves."

"Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions. " https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epictetus


Do what you do. Who would I be to try and stop you? This is just my personal experience speaking. It also comes from my experience of watching friends go into bad emotional states trying to wake the dead and turns sheep into wolves.

Actions speak louder than words.


Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:54 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Agreed. I take a slightly different approach to red pilling people. You can't force them to take the red pill, but you can offer the choice, you know what I mean? I try to feel people out. Are they merely asleep just waiting for the nudge to rouse them from their slumber, or are they just sheep refusing to go against the flow, even if they know the herd is heading towards a sheer drop? So, when I sense it's just a sheep, I waste no more time, but if I suspect I have found a potential wolf, then I start to gently nudge, offering little tidbits of information in hopes that the person will begin seeking truth for themselves. Some take that next step, and some don't, and beyond showing them that there is another way, there is nothing more we can do.


Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:01 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:29 am
Posts: 132
sweinodinsson wrote:
I see and hear a lot of people online and in person talk about "Red pilling" people. They want to WAKE PEOPLE UP! I understand the feeling. It is not the way of the Odinist to proselytize. "Red pilling" people about things going on in the world, whether it be immigration issues, government abuse, or religion are performing futile actions, in my opinion.
You can't turn a sheep into a wolf. You can't wake up the walking dead.

I always paraphrase the great Greek stoic philosopher Epictetus by saying, "We can't control what others do, but we can control ourselves."

"Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions. " https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epictetus


Do what you do. Who would I be to try and stop you? This is just my personal experience speaking. It also comes from my experience of watching friends go into bad emotional states trying to wake the dead and turns sheep into wolves.

Actions speak louder than words.


Fand wrote:
Agreed. I take a slightly different approach to red pilling people. You can't force them to take the red pill, but you can offer the choice, you know what I mean? I try to feel people out. Are they merely asleep just waiting for the nudge to rouse them from their slumber, or are they just sheep refusing to go against the flow, even if they know the herd is heading towards a sheer drop? So, when I sense it's just a sheep, I waste no more time, but if I suspect I have found a potential wolf, then I start to gently nudge, offering little tidbits of information in hopes that the person will begin seeking truth for themselves. Some take that next step, and some don't, and beyond showing them that there is another way, there is nothing more we can do.


Well, while I can agree in a similar sense to Fand, I couldn't disagree more strongly with the overall approach as presented in the OP.

Platitudes and quotes are nice, and in this sense I believe do serve a purpose to help us compartmentalize quandaries, confusion, manipulation, ignorance, laziness, weakness or logical incongruities in our own understanding and they also perfectly assuage our consciences. However, that is where their usefulness ends in this regard.

Unfortunately "red-pilling" has become somewhat of a catch-all buzzword, misused by pop-culture and those who have only the most superficial grasp on the base concepts, or apply the term only to ancillary issues, often politically obfuscated. A caricatured example would be those that believe themselves to be shepherds or wolves because they watched "Zeitgeist", or follow this, that and the other YouTuber and parrots a bunch of **** they or the YouTuber they follow barely understand, or they "found" atheism/socialism/odinism etc. and automatically believe themselves to be "red-pilled" in some sense or another. Not many people know what all the ingredients are in the red pill.

Sweinodinsson, in the past you and I have often agreed with each other on various issues, so if I am misreading your post then my apologies in advance, I have no wish to mis-characterize your post or opinions. That being said, my interpretation of your post is that you think we shouldn't try in any regard. It may not be "the way of the Odinist" to proselytize, but part of my take on "the way of the Odinist" is that it is our way to be proud and unashamed of who we are, and to protect who we are and those that are our kith and kin. To me this most definitely includes a duty to ensure our descendants inherit that which our ancestors ensured for us; that to which we are inexorably linked. More simply, it is not our way to do nothing in regular life or in the face of adversity. I don't necessarily think that's what you meant, however that is what I think it often reduces to practically. Given the current status of western civilization, this is proving to be deadly.

I was with you when you said we can't wake the walking dead, however, as Fand instinctively interprets it and technically applies it (correct my if I am wrong Fand) it is about the choice and in fact has very little to nothing to do with forcing anyone. There is also a difference between controlling people, and maintaining a healthy civilization, however there is no difference between controlling people and maintaining an unhealthy civilization like the one we currently find ourselves in.

"Live and let live" as I extrapolate from the context of "who would I be to try and stop you", is what got us into this current mess. Of course, our people are no strangers to messes, bearing teeth marks and all that jazz, but that is beside the point. It has gotten us into this mess, not because it is an an inappropriate benchmark but because it is generally applied in a way that manifests as an almost fatalistic and suicidal altruism. It would be different if we maintained homogeneous societies, however we have been manipulated, conditioned and ordered into accelerated and unnatural "progress". There is a fine distinction within the concept of freedom, a distinction that too many people are unable to discern. Leave the system, make it on your own terms however know that when you enter a civilization you are rightly subject to its rules. Unless we are talking something like tribal anarchy which is utterly unworkable at this time and is rather puerile, this is an inescapable reality. Even then, within those tribes there will be the same or similar social structures. There are always limits. The problem lies in the fact that civilization as we know it is in fundamental conflict with the concept of live and let live exemplified by but not limited to the fact that you are not allowed to leave the system. This is an attack on all of us. However, this is not the distinction I am speaking of. The distinction lies in knowing the solution to the problem and discerning what limits are necessary in order to maintain the health of the civilization.

Anecdotally, in the past I have been very cynical about most people on this planet. Even misanthropic. Lately I have come to think that people are more often than not maliciously misinformed rather than evil or stupid or truly zombified. I think of it more like a virus or bacterial infection and people are infected with various strains and with varying symptoms and severity of those symptoms. And yes, many people are terminal cases. Properly red-pilling is akin to administering antibiotics. The person's "immune system" must still do its work to provide a response and heal, but the antibiotic fights the causal factors and provides a door or even a weapon to use against the infection.

I believe that only a small percentage of people are truly capable of red-pilling (and likewise being truly fully red-pilled) in the truest and most thorough sense. Planting seeds or giving them that nudge to rouse them is not as facile as ranting to someone or showing them some videos, it involves assessing and gaining an understanding of the individual. More than that it depends on a nuanced understanding of individual issues and how they connect to and affect one another. Red-pilling often starts with and remains for a long time a matter of setting up or dusting off a psychological framework that can recognize the aforementioned incongruities and turn them into inoculations.

Fully red-pilling someone who is asleep takes years. Years, no sh***ing. Just finding the opportunity to remain in close relation long enough to maintain guidance to attempt red-pilling is a rare thing on its own. For the most part, the best you can hope for with the people you are close to or in contact with for limited time is that you have triggered a paradigm shift for that individual. This does not always result in a positive outcome. This is usually either because of an inadequately equipped "guide", an inaccurate assessment, inadequate time to with the individual to develop them or a situation involving manipulation or interference by an infecting agent.

SM
TWWF


Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:45 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:08 pm
Posts: 632
To both of you:

I agree more than I disagree.

When typing about being able to control ourselves, but not others- comes from watching a friend just about go crazy after he made it his mission to "wake people up!" Some people just don't want to wake up and you can't MAKE them. Especially if you are not solid in what you believe - with at least a few years of it under your belt. Otherwise, in my opinion, it is more like a manic high because of your new beliefs about the world, religion, philosophy, etc. I watched this guy start making YouTube videos about it while his opinions were still changing back and forth until he was standing there crying to me, unable to figure out why he can't wake up all his friends and neighbors. (Not an Odinist)

On proselytizing: I know another guy similar to my other friend whose form of "red-pilling" reminds me of a Southern Baptist Xian preaching on a street corner, except about Odin.

StigandrMelrakki,
You are right that it can be done to an extent...but not unless the person wants it to some degree. I think the person has to be a seeker. You can't force the "red pill" down anyones throat. Another way of looking at my quote about control is that often, actions speak louder than words. I don't say much to people unless I know that they are in agreement with me. Not out of snobbery or anything like that, but because by nature I am an agressive person, that has it's uses, but not so much in verbal finesse. What happens with me, is people see the things that I do and what I am into and start asking me questions. I don't try to "red pill", but I have the oppurtunity from time to time to explain my actions. For example: Why do you have all that old stuff set up on your book shelf like that? Me "Because I believe in honoring my ancestors and that is one way I do it." Then they ask me about my religious/philosophical beliefs and I tell them about how I follow the old gods.
People see my garden and animals and ask me what made me get rid of my landscaping business and I get to explain to them how silly I think the modern world is with spraying poison on peoples yards and taking care of things for people who are too lazy to do it themselves then taking my hard earned money to the grocery store to buy poisoned and questionable foods, how when I started that, I thought I was working for myself, but ended up with 50 bosses called clients. Now, growing my own food, raising animals, hunting, and then just taking an odd job when I need extra cash, I really am my own boss. I don't have to violate my own beliefs.

So yeah...I agree that there are ways to go about it. I think that the people at Red Ice are working hard to do it, but I'm not sure how many people who don't already share their beliefs are watching their videos.
I especially think that Steven McNallen is on to something with his new propaganda campaign (for lack of better terms).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxc0LFMTzMI

but going around and getting in peoples ears who don't want to hear it is ineffective.


Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:54 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Sweinodinsson, I think your original post reads in a slightly misleading way. But in your last post, I find little to nothing with which to disagree. Same goes to stigmandr's comment.
The notion that the sleeping masses are afflicted by a sort of virus of the mind is not a bad analogy. But as sweinodinsson rightly said, an individual must want to be cured. Indeed, they must first acknowledge that they are sick, metaphorically speaking. That is a very difficult thing for most people to do, and therefore, very few can fight off the disease.
It is like an extremely contagious plague, and sometimes I feel like the only prudent thing to do would be to herd the hopeless cases over the metaphorical cliff, and then get to work trying to administer therapy to the survivors.
As I said in another thread, the masses are an obstacle barring our path to a better world. I hate to admit that I often find myself aligning with the attitude of tptb towards the masses of useless eaters and useful idiots. Maybe they are not altogether wrong to want to cull the herd.
Keeping my cynicism in check is becoming increasingly difficult these days. My previous post was much more in line with my more idealistic stance.


Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:22 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:29 am
Posts: 132
sweinodinsson wrote:
but going around and getting in peoples ears who don't want to hear it is ineffective.


Agreed, however this is where I and I believe Fand make the distinction. If you (not you personally) have gotten to a point that you are getting in someone's ears who doesn't want to hear it, then you have failed as a guide. In fact, it is a good indication that one is not adequately equipped to be a guide, because you incorrectly assessed the individual as being able or ready to be red-pilled. Where I think I may differ with Fand, is that while someone must be willing to be red-pilled, a sheep is called a sheep for a reason, asleep is asleep, this is where the skill of the guide comes in recognizing the potential within the individual. Rousing that acknowledgement or desire is not the red pill itself. The red pill does not come first and is really the goal, not the seed.

As I mentioned before, red-pilling is not a matter of spilling your guts, ranting to someone or showing them a bunch of videos. It is likewise not about casting a wide net over everyone you can find and it's not really even about broaching the subject matter at all. In fact, the subject matter is more of a tool used by the guide in a similar fashion to your statement regarding broaching the subject of your beliefs with people. The subject matter becomes important once the individual starts to develop the red-pill tools, and this whole thing is about equipping them with the tools to red-pill themselves. You don't hand someone the red pill and tell them to swallow it. It is not about re-engineering or re-indoctrination. You offer it like Morpheus, alongside the blue pill. If you are doing it correctly, the individual will not know for a good long while, if at all, that you have done anything. A person who is red-pilled comes to the conclusions they do not because X study says Y or because X celebrity, "expert" or authority figure says Y, but because they are armed with the tools, defenses and weapons necessary to self-administer the red pill. This is why I say there are only a small percentage of people that are capable of red-pilling or being fully red-pilled. The concept is woefully misunderstood, and while I do not know what YouTuber you are speaking of, it does appear to be a prime example of what happens to someone who misunderstands and improperly applies red-pilling. It can not only hurt the sleeping individual or exacerbate the situation, it can also destroy the inadequately equipped guide. It also hurts the image of the entire concept. When I was much younger, this was the default approach. I alienated myself, most of my family and friends. It was that experience that helped me develop my current methodology for red-pilling.

SM
TWWF


Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:28 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Stigmandr, do you see a distinction between a sheep and one who is asleep?
Personally, I think there is a distinction. As you said, very few are capable of waking up. From my own observations and from hearing from others about how they came to wake up, I've come to the conclusion that most, if not all, people who eventually "wake up" were never really asleep at all. Instead it is as though they were just young and not yet armed with an adequate supply of knowledge and information necessary for critical thinking.
It was certainly like this for me. And like me, most of the people I've talked to have agreed that the moment when they became aware was around their early to late teenage years. For me, I was curious and seeking knowledge independently as early as elementary school, but it wasn't until I was about 12-13 that I started to accumulate enough knowledge to be able to notice how things just didn't seem to add up. I began to question more thoroughly.
I noticed how other kids my age weren't interested in knowing the how's and why's of the world around them. They were preoccupied with mind numbing distractions. Even those who claimed to be religious were all talk.
What kind of child isn't curious and inquisitive?
Either the propaganda machine is claiming its victims at extremely early ages, or most people are just worker bees and drones to begin with — all a part of a hive mind.
This brings me to yet another theory. Are there some kind of subspecies of human beings? (This has little to nothing to do with race, nor even so much physical attributes and compatibility for reproduction.) I'm considering something more esoteric. I always feel wrong about having blood taken by a doctor. How do we know what they really do with it? Nearly every newborn baby has blood taken when they are born, supposedly to test for metabolic issues... But again, how do we know that these blood samples aren't being used for a kind of genetic database?
Vaccines, for example, interfere with our normal physiology, and many things, from vaccines to GMOs to additives and heavy metals in our food and water supply are known to alter our genetics or gene expression. (A scientist would do a much better job of explaining this.)
So, I wonder, is there some shadow governing body, secret societies, or even other beings trying to look for something in our DNA that might reveal some anomalies in the human race. Can the tendency towards being a sheep or being awake be dependent upon genetics? And to take it one step further, could it be the difference between the soulless on the one hand, and the spirit incarnate on the other? Or merely different kinds of souls?
This is venturing deep into the realms of speculation, but this is something that has been on my mind a lot lately.


Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:18 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:39 pm
Posts: 673
Fand, I believe some of your thoughts are on the right track. Stormr


Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:19 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Thank you, Norse Storm.


Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:16 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:29 am
Posts: 132
Fand wrote:
Stigmandr, do you see a distinction between a sheep and one who is asleep?

Short answer, yes.

Quote:
Personally, I think there is a distinction. As you said, very few are capable of waking up. From my own observations and from hearing from others about how they came to wake up, I've come to the conclusion that most, if not all, people who eventually "wake up" were never really asleep at all. Instead it is as though they were just young and not yet armed with an adequate supply of knowledge and information necessary for critical thinking.


To me the distinctions are very blurred because there are so many different people. Categories are only useful to generalize for ease of conversation but I don't actually think in terms of categories etc. Usually for ease of a conversation I boil things down to just red-pilled (with a malleable definition depending on those in the conversation) and not red-pilled.

In general, to me "never asleep" (a category I am using solely for the sake of this conversation, this group is known by many other names) means people who "woke themselves" once they had the emotional/logical tools and information to direct their own awakening. The distinction I make is that those who did not actually wake themselves up are Sleepers. Never Asleepers, given that they encounter the proper catalysts, will always awaken on their own (so technically it's a misnomer, but functionally it works). They are like a fail-safe for humanity. Mother nature ensuring a correction if you think in those terms. They are their own guides.

Sleepers will awaken given the correct catalysts, but more importantly given the correct guides, typically the never sleepers, or a combination of other awakened Sleepers. I guess an easy way of putting it, would be that the Never Sleepers are born with the skills to use the tools and knowledge as they gain them. In this sense they can guide, accelerate, focus and/or intensify their awakening. ("He shall know your ways as if born to them" lol, I'm such a nerd.) Never Sleepers are able to put the jigsaw puzzle together without looking at the picture on the box.

The Sleepers, when they gain the tools and knowledge, still need to be taught how to apply the knowledge and skills. They may be intelligent, but they are unable to see the picture before the pieces are put together. Sleepers need the box to build the puzzle. During their awakening, not all but many of them get lost and take a bad turn in the rabbit hole somewhere, ending up with an often incomplete, skewed or twisted combination of red and blue-pilled paradigms. This is often due to having no guide, having a likewise "confused" guide or a guide who is trying to guide above his/her own level of redpilledness lol or losing their guide part way through the awakening/red-pilling. It could also be because they fall into any number of the pitfalls of irrationality where there are many individuals who are otherwise intelligent that seem to understand some of the "traditionally" red-pilled ideas and lines of logic (though they don't recognize them as such), but then completely fall off the rails when it comes to other stuff. They are unable or must learn to see the parallels or connections on their own and apply similar concepts to other seemingly unrelated issues or ideas. They often resist challenge and fold under scrutiny, but this is usually more a matter of pride than ability. This pride along with good intentions erroneously leads many awakened Sleepers to think that they are Never Sleepers or Guides (which is not to say that some aren't). This is where trouble starts.

"Asleep" is actually a difficult category which is almost unworkable because there is such a wide range within this category from almost "never sleepers" to almost "sheep". The common factor is that Sleepers, in general need some sort of guidance and education and through the generations they need to be re-educated to remain red-pilled through time and changes in society. If a Never Sleeper has a child that child isn't automatically a Never Sleeper. So for me it's more about the type of person than their status of red-pilled vs non-red-pilled, which is why over time a people lose can lose their way. Just because they are "red-pilled" now doesn't mean that it will stay this way down through the generations, as we are seeing the fallout of in western civilization right now.


I like to hold hope that most people who are asleep will eventually wake up sooner or later. These are the "maliciously misinformed" I spoke of. A large number of people within this category would otherwise be red-pilled if it weren't for religious or secular dogma, a past traumatic or mis-perceived experience, and other specific indoctrination. Those that are close enough to remain under personal guidance are likely to awaken in shorter order, limited by the individual's level of comprehension. In the cases of those who are not in constant close relation the role of the guide is to get them to "jump tracks". Some need only a nudge, someone to straighten out the rudder. Others need more and some the best you can hope is that you get them to question a long held belief/assumption/idea. Pull a bottom card out from the house and hope you've started a chain reaction.

"Sheep" are people who never wake up. They can only be trained and indoctrinated. are trained to a specific "awakeness". They can be trained, re-trained, un-trained and anything in between but they are never truly able to see past individual issues or basic relationships and tend to draw incorrect or distorted parallels between issues when they do step outside of what they have learned to repeat. Even when trained they are only capable of seeing the connections they are shown. They are not able to put the puzzle together on their own. They may see every piece but they cannot see how they fit together. They generally aren't capable of intelligently responding to something that challenges their training. With sheep, regardless of anything else it is a matter of ability.


Quote:
It was certainly like this for me. And like me, most of the people I've talked to have agreed that the moment when they became aware was around their early to late teenage years. For me, I was curious and seeking knowledge independently as early as elementary school, but it wasn't until I was about 12-13 that I started to accumulate enough knowledge to be able to notice how things just didn't seem to add up. I began to question more thoroughly.
I noticed how other kids my age weren't interested in knowing the how's and why's of the world around them. They were preoccupied with mind numbing distractions. Even those who claimed to be religious were all talk.
What kind of child isn't curious and inquisitive?
Either the propaganda machine is claiming its victims at extremely early ages, or most people are just worker bees and drones to begin with — all a part of a hive mind.


I suspect that it will be a similar experience with most that were never asleep and many that were sleepers.

Quote:
This brings me to yet another theory. Are there some kind of subspecies of human beings? (This has little to nothing to do with race, nor even so much physical attributes and compatibility for reproduction.) I'm considering something more esoteric. I always feel wrong about having blood taken by a doctor. How do we know what they really do with it? Nearly every newborn baby has blood taken when they are born, supposedly to test for metabolic issues... But again, how do we know that these blood samples aren't being used for a kind of genetic database?
Vaccines, for example, interfere with our normal physiology, and many things, from vaccines to GMOs to additives and heavy metals in our food and water supply are known to alter our genetics or gene expression. (A scientist would do a much better job of explaining this.)
So, I wonder, is there some shadow governing body, secret societies, or even other beings trying to look for something in our DNA that might reveal some anomalies in the human race. Can the tendency towards being a sheep or being awake be dependent upon genetics? And to take it one step further, could it be the difference between the soulless on the one hand, and the spirit incarnate on the other? Or merely different kinds of souls?
This is venturing deep into the realms of speculation, but this is something that has been on my mind a lot lately.


Perhaps they are looking for a gene for sleepers or never sleepers or the like? Perhaps an evolutionary marker or an extra-terrestrial marker. Genetic "perfection" for various ends. Following the lines with GMOs etc. perhaps they are looking for an effect. Something they have intentionally or accidentally changed, added, removed/mutated with any number of previously widespread consumer products or government experiments or "globalist" agenda. Definitely a topic that merits examination.

SM
TWWF

Note: Post heavily edited for formatting and to add clarity and additional discussion.


Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:50 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Wow, stigmandr! I very much enjoyed reading your last post! Honestly, everything you said really resonates with me. It makes sense that there would be some middle path to the never asleep vs. the sheep. And all the shades in between. I've seen that often enough, and more often than naught the would be redpilled individuals fall into the trap of some specific indoctrination, typically religious, but form the most part, in all other respects, they see through the layers of deception, see what is really there. I realize how powerful emotional attachments can cloud ones judgement, hence the importance of overcoming, or mastering the emotional response.

Thank you for humouring me on the topic of genetics. There are plenty of variables to be considered there, and it is a subject of fascination to me. Also, the truth is often lying in plain sight, but few will pay any heed. It's like a serial killer who has to leave his calling card, so to speak, to boast of his misdeeds, while never actually getting caught.


Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:27 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:39 pm
Posts: 673
Quote:
I believe that only a small percentage of people are truly capable of red-pilling (and likewise being truly fully red-pilled) in the truest and most thorough sense. Planting seeds or giving them that nudge to rouse them is not as facile as ranting to someone or showing them some videos, it involves assessing and gaining an understanding of the individual. More than that it depends on a nuanced understanding of individual issues and how they connect to and affect one another. Red-pilling often starts with and remains for a long time a matter of setting up or dusting off a psychological framework that can recognize the aforementioned incongruities and turn them into inoculations.

Fully red-pilling someone who is asleep takes years. Years, no sh***ing. Just finding the opportunity to remain in close relation long enough to maintain guidance to attempt red-pilling is a rare thing on its own. For the most part, the best you can hope for with the people you are close to or in contact with for limited time is that you have triggered a paradigm shift for that individual. This does not always result in a positive outcome. This is usually either because of an inadequately equipped "guide", an inaccurate assessment, inadequate time to with the individual to develop them or a situation involving manipulation or interference by an infecting agent.

Couldn't agree more. My approach anyway.

Quote:
ou are right that it can be done to an extent...but not unless the person wants it to some degree. I think the person has to be a seeker. You can't force the "red pill" down anyones throat. Another way of looking at my quote about control is that often, actions speak louder than words. I don't say much to people unless I know that they are in agreement with me. Not out of snobbery or anything like that, but because by nature I am an agressive person, that has it's uses, but not so much in verbal finesse.

Agree - only seekers are prepared to listen and learn.

Quote:
do you see a distinction between a sheep and one who is asleep

A sheep is happy with their lot, their lives are full, they have everything they want. They are fat and lazy.
Someone who is asleep is aware that there is so much more to life, that there is a purpose they don't understand, something 'more'. These are the ones I watch out for, not the disgruntled but the curious, the seekers. These are the ones I 'red pill', help out, educate gently, encourage them to think and explore. Would I like them to follow our path? of course however, if they choose another 'path of enlightenment' that is their prerogative ... as long as they wake up

Quote:
It makes sense that there would be some middle path to the never asleep vs. the sheep. And all the shades in between.

This is a good summation of how I think it works too. I have those I 'help' who have got to a point and will go no further - partially awake but happy to remain mostly ignorant. I think there are more of those than not.

Fand, I too like your thoughts on genetics - for every thought we have here, there are similar thoughts elsewhere. Others too feel the same way --- does that mean there is some truth to the speculations?

Stormr


Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:45 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:07 am
Posts: 104
sweinodinsson wrote:
I see and hear a lot of people online and in person talk about "Red pilling" people. They want to WAKE PEOPLE UP! I understand the feeling. It is not the way of the Odinist to proselytize. "Red pilling" people about things going on in the world, whether it be immigration issues, government abuse, or religion are performing futile actions, in my opinion.
You can't turn a sheep into a wolf. You can't wake up the walking dead.

I always paraphrase the great Greek stoic philosopher Epictetus by saying, "We can't control what others do, but we can control ourselves."

"Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions. " https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epictetus


Do what you do. Who would I be to try and stop you? This is just my personal experience speaking. It also comes from my experience of watching friends go into bad emotional states trying to wake the dead and turns sheep into wolves.

Actions speak louder than words.


The phrase "red pilling" is annoying. But what is it? It is INFORMING people. That is what friends and kindred do for each other. If your house is on fire, it's common decency to tell you. If you're drunk, pulling an insurance sacam, etc. and ignore me, that's on you.

You've seen friends "go into bad emotional states"? And that is a reason to do nothing? I've been in a few shitstorms here and there in the world. Bad emotional states are the least of anyone's worries in the world that's dawning. Tell your friends to man up and grow some *****. This isn't about them. More than one wise man has said, "Knowledge is a curse." Knowledge is also decreed by the Norns, for some of us. I may be in a losing battle with this age. That does not justify my downing my weapon and ducking into a hole.


Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:02 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:57 am
Posts: 25
Wotan's Late Harvest wrote:
sweinodinsson wrote:
I see and hear a lot of people online and in person talk about "Red pilling" people. They want to WAKE PEOPLE UP! I understand the feeling. It is not the way of the Odinist to proselytize. "Red pilling" people about things going on in the world, whether it be immigration issues, government abuse, or religion are performing futile actions, in my opinion.
You can't turn a sheep into a wolf. You can't wake up the walking dead.

I always paraphrase the great Greek stoic philosopher Epictetus by saying, "We can't control what others do, but we can control ourselves."

"Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions. " https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epictetus


Do what you do. Who would I be to try and stop you? This is just my personal experience speaking. It also comes from my experience of watching friends go into bad emotional states trying to wake the dead and turns sheep into wolves.

Actions speak louder than words.


The phrase "red pilling" is annoying. But what is it? It is INFORMING people. That is what friends and kindred do for each other. If your house is on fire, it's common decency to tell you. If you're drunk, pulling an insurance sacam, etc. and ignore me, that's on you.

You've seen friends "go into bad emotional states"? And that is a reason to do nothing? I've been in a few shitstorms here and there in the world. Bad emotional states are the least of anyone's worries in the world that's dawning. Tell your friends to man up and grow some *****. This isn't about them. More than one wise man has said, "Knowledge is a curse." Knowledge is also decreed by the Norns, for some of us. I may be in a losing battle with this age. That does not justify my downing my weapon and ducking into a hole.


Using the analogy of a battle:
Standing at the front lines and screaming at people that we are in a battle is ineffective at best and suicidal at worst.
We send trained soldiers into battle, not people with no concept of individual and team movements. In combat lifesaver school, I was taught to use my wounded battle buddy's body as a shield while i pour quick clot on him or fix his sucking chest wound. What good am i in the fight if I am hit while trying to help someone who is already down?
We aren't in a losing battle, we are just in the thick of it. Even though the Elder Kin go into Ragnarok knowing that there is no "winning" in the traditional sense, they still fight (winning the war comes after losing the battle of Ragnarok through regeneration). They don't stand there trying to "red pill" people. They act. They come to those who are worthy in dreams and synchronicities. Odin and Freyja take those who are worthy from this earth through physical death to join their army...all without saying a word.
The Elder KIn came to me and didn't have to say a word to call me home.
Shifting this analogy: The army recruits, but to be part of the elite US Army Special Forces, first you must be a soldier. After becoming a soldier, you have to become an NCO, from there you have to pass through an ORDEAL (sojourn if you will) to become part of the elite. The elite don't hit the streets recruiting, they work in the shadows.
The brotherhood is the elite. Personally, I think it would be wiser for someone who has taken the sojourn OR who seriously walks this path to walk anonymously in the shadows...maybe said person would disseminate our lore through a forum, a message in a bottle, a horde buried for future generations, or through other creative means- like Psy-ops and civil affairs printed surrender instructions on the back of money and air dropped it all over Iraq. Time would be better spent finding one or a few people throughout our lives to pass the lore on to - who are already warriors -wolves.
This is just my opinion on this thread.


Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:22 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
BigCountry wrote:
Wotan's Late Harvest wrote:

The phrase "red pilling" is annoying. But what is it? It is INFORMING people. That is what friends and kindred do for each other. If your house is on fire, it's common decency to tell you. If you're drunk, pulling an insurance sacam, etc. and ignore me, that's on you.

You've seen friends "go into bad emotional states"? And that is a reason to do nothing? I've been in a few shitstorms here and there in the world. Bad emotional states are the least of anyone's worries in the world that's dawning. Tell your friends to man up and grow some *****. This isn't about them. More than one wise man has said, "Knowledge is a curse." Knowledge is also decreed by the Norns, for some of us. I may be in a losing battle with this age. That does not justify my downing my weapon and ducking into a hole.


Using the analogy of a battle:
Standing at the front lines and screaming at people that we are in a battle is ineffective at best and suicidal at worst.
We send trained soldiers into battle, not people with no concept of individual and team movements. In combat lifesaver school, I was taught to use my wounded battle buddy's body as a shield while i pour quick clot on him or fix his sucking chest wound. What good am i in the fight if I am hit while trying to help someone who is already down?
We aren't in a losing battle, we are just in the thick of it. Even though the Elder Kin go into Ragnarok knowing that there is no "winning" in the traditional sense, they still fight (winning the war comes after losing the battle of Ragnarok through regeneration). They don't stand there trying to "red pill" people. They act. They come to those who are worthy in dreams and synchronicities. Odin and Freyja take those who are worthy from this earth through physical death to join their army...all without saying a word.
The Elder KIn came to me and didn't have to say a word to call me home.
Shifting this analogy: The army recruits, but to be part of the elite US Army Special Forces, first you must be a soldier. After becoming a soldier, you have to become an NCO, from there you have to pass through an ORDEAL (sojourn if you will) to become part of the elite. The elite don't hit the streets recruiting, they work in the shadows.
The brotherhood is the elite. Personally, I think it would be wiser for someone who has taken the sojourn OR who seriously walks this path to walk anonymously in the shadows...maybe said person would disseminate our lore through a forum, a message in a bottle, a horde buried for future generations, or through other creative means- like Psy-ops and civil affairs printed surrender instructions on the back of money and air dropped it all over Iraq. Time would be better spent finding one or a few people throughout our lives to pass the lore on to - who are already warriors -wolves.
This is just my opinion on this thread.


Ah! But Big Country, you are not suggesting that we do nothing! You are just considering a more sly approach. Some people look at all the obstacles and choose to do nothing because the challenge seems too great. Others look for ways to overcome and get around those obstacles. The herd of bleating sheep who go, "Baah! The TV said...!" are just such an obstacle. Hidden amongst them are other wolves trying to go unnoticed, and not seeing the way out, though they seek it. The challenge here is to recognize them, and help them see they are not alone. People feel braver when they realize they have friends and allies. Just look at the fascist Left? They feel emboldened by the swell of numbers flocking to their ranks. But what are they really? Just a flock of dumb sheep, trying to press the rest of us over the cliff with them.
But we have something they don't have: the ability to think for ourselves, to see when something is amiss. We have survival instincts, a sense of self preservation. We must have courage to choose a path of honour over simply going with the suicidal flow. We do not need to save the entire herd. Phuck the herd. Once they are out of the way, the real enemy will have no pawns to hide behind. Only save those wolves who can still be saved, and leave the rest.
And if there are some working in the shadows, trying to give the rest of us a chance to gather our strength, all the better! But don't just sit idly by and do absolutely nothing! There are ways to broadcast a message without anyone ever seeing who the messenger is.There are ways of calling the wolves back to the pack without exposing the pack to the enemy.
There are people scattered all throughout our western world who are awake, and that is what tptb fear, which is apparent in their ruthless assault against free speech of late. Their attempts to silence any opposing views, shows that they fear the message that might spread amongst the masses and enlighten enough of those who can be roused to threaten the whole pyramid scheme. That implies there are enough people in the world who are not content to be part of a herd of slaves, who are not satisfied with the mediocrity that has been thrust upon them.
Now is not the time to hide under a rock and wait for it all to blow over, leaving those who can still be considered our folk to be crushed under the heel of oppression. So, choose your methods, be it stealth or the front lines. Whatever suits you — but don't cower and freeze and do nothing.
If you think it's a losing battle now, wait until you crawl out from under your rock. If all the wolves shall become witless worms, then the war is already lost, and there will be nothing left to salvage when you come crawling out of your rotting hole.
(This is not directed at anyone in particular. But the quotes from Big Country and Wotan's Late Harvest both make excellent points, in my opinion.)


Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:22 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:39 pm
Posts: 673
Well said Fand. We don't always see eye to eye, but on this you have spoken well. Stormr


Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:50 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:07 am
Posts: 104
Stealth can be a good tactic. IF it is truly stealth. As David Lane wrote, now is the time to be a chameleon. (I think he wrote that in the 90's.) But I recall what Joe Stilwell wrote about his Guo Min Dang underlings. They would invoke the perfectly sound Daoist principle of waiting for the opportune moment to justify chronic inactivity and passivity. Be stealthy if it's your way. Just make sure the way is heading somewhere.


Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:32 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Thanks Norse Storm. Sometimes I feel like I'm just rambling. Putting my thoughts into words isn't always easy.

Good point Wotan's Late Harvest.


Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:05 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:57 am
Posts: 25
Fand wrote:
BigCountry wrote:
Wotan's Late Harvest wrote:

The phrase "red pilling" is annoying. But what is it? It is INFORMING people. That is what friends and kindred do for each other. If your house is on fire, it's common decency to tell you. If you're drunk, pulling an insurance sacam, etc. and ignore me, that's on you.

You've seen friends "go into bad emotional states"? And that is a reason to do nothing? I've been in a few shitstorms here and there in the world. Bad emotional states are the least of anyone's worries in the world that's dawning. Tell your friends to man up and grow some *****. This isn't about them. More than one wise man has said, "Knowledge is a curse." Knowledge is also decreed by the Norns, for some of us. I may be in a losing battle with this age. That does not justify my downing my weapon and ducking into a hole.


Using the analogy of a battle:
Standing at the front lines and screaming at people that we are in a battle is ineffective at best and suicidal at worst.
We send trained soldiers into battle, not people with no concept of individual and team movements. In combat lifesaver school, I was taught to use my wounded battle buddy's body as a shield while i pour quick clot on him or fix his sucking chest wound. What good am i in the fight if I am hit while trying to help someone who is already down?
We aren't in a losing battle, we are just in the thick of it. Even though the Elder Kin go into Ragnarok knowing that there is no "winning" in the traditional sense, they still fight (winning the war comes after losing the battle of Ragnarok through regeneration). They don't stand there trying to "red pill" people. They act. They come to those who are worthy in dreams and synchronicities. Odin and Freyja take those who are worthy from this earth through physical death to join their army...all without saying a word.
The Elder KIn came to me and didn't have to say a word to call me home.
Shifting this analogy: The army recruits, but to be part of the elite US Army Special Forces, first you must be a soldier. After becoming a soldier, you have to become an NCO, from there you have to pass through an ORDEAL (sojourn if you will) to become part of the elite. The elite don't hit the streets recruiting, they work in the shadows.
The brotherhood is the elite. Personally, I think it would be wiser for someone who has taken the sojourn OR who seriously walks this path to walk anonymously in the shadows...maybe said person would disseminate our lore through a forum, a message in a bottle, a horde buried for future generations, or through other creative means- like Psy-ops and civil affairs printed surrender instructions on the back of money and air dropped it all over Iraq. Time would be better spent finding one or a few people throughout our lives to pass the lore on to - who are already warriors -wolves.
This is just my opinion on this thread.


Ah! But Big Country, you are not suggesting that we do nothing! You are just considering a more sly approach. Some people look at all the obstacles and choose to do nothing because the challenge seems too great. Others look for ways to overcome and get around those obstacles. The herd of bleating sheep who go, "Baah! The TV said...!" are just such an obstacle. Hidden amongst them are other wolves trying to go unnoticed, and not seeing the way out, though they seek it. The challenge here is to recognize them, and help them see they are not alone. People feel braver when they realize they have friends and allies. Just look at the fascist Left? They feel emboldened by the swell of numbers flocking to their ranks. But what are they really? Just a flock of dumb sheep, trying to press the rest of us over the cliff with them.
But we have something they don't have: the ability to think for ourselves, to see when something is amiss. We have survival instincts, a sense of self preservation. We must have courage to choose a path of honour over simply going with the suicidal flow. We do not need to save the entire herd. Phuck the herd. Once they are out of the way, the real enemy will have no pawns to hide behind. Only save those wolves who can still be saved, and leave the rest.
And if there are some working in the shadows, trying to give the rest of us a chance to gather our strength, all the better! But don't just sit idly by and do absolutely nothing! There are ways to broadcast a message without anyone ever seeing who the messenger is.There are ways of calling the wolves back to the pack without exposing the pack to the enemy.
There are people scattered all throughout our western world who are awake, and that is what tptb fear, which is apparent in their ruthless assault against free speech of late. Their attempts to silence any opposing views, shows that they fear the message that might spread amongst the masses and enlighten enough of those who can be roused to threaten the whole pyramid scheme. That implies there are enough people in the world who are not content to be part of a herd of slaves, who are not satisfied with the mediocrity that has been thrust upon them.
Now is not the time to hide under a rock and wait for it all to blow over, leaving those who can still be considered our folk to be crushed under the heel of oppression. So, choose your methods, be it stealth or the front lines. Whatever suits you — but don't cower and freeze and do nothing.
If you think it's a losing battle now, wait until you crawl out from under your rock. If all the wolves shall become witless worms, then the war is already lost, and there will be nothing left to salvage when you come crawling out of your rotting hole.
(This is not directed at anyone in particular. But the quotes from Big Country and Wotan's Late Harvest both make excellent points, in my opinion.)

I am suggesting that we learn the lore and preserve it, then find someone who is already a wolf/warrior to teach it to. I see no point in acting like a street corner preacher or internet evangelist.


Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:01 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 561
Big Country, I'm not advocating being Odinist evangelicals — Although that would make for a highly humorous sight! Haha!
No, learning the lore is for me, and for my daughter. We are each responsible for our own spiritual advancement. While it would be nice to see European descendants come back to their respective roots (be it Germanic/Norse, Celtic, Roman, Greek, or whatever), that is something that cannot be forced. Well, it could, if we would learn from the Christians, but that only creates slaves. There's no honour in that approach.
I'm talking about more of a literal preservation of our people. As has been adequately stressed, we can't save everyone, nor should we try. Personally, I'm concerned with the agenda to demonize not only our folkish ways, but the whole of European people in general, wherever in the world they may be. It seems that ethnic Europeans are in the genocidal cross hairs, and while I doubt it will anytime soon turn to all out holocaust, there does seem to be actions underway to breed us out of existence. Flooding our homelands with foreign races who bred like rabbits; contaminating our food and water and medicines with toxins that cause infertility so as to lower birth rates; propaganda designed to discourage white folk from settling down and raising families — telling us being unattached, single, and shunning responsibilities is the cool thing to do, so just keep on partying, being promiscuous, and don't worry, if your birth control fails you can just pop a pill or have an abortion; and if all that should fail to prevent whites from having kids, just guilt trip them into mixing with those dark-skinned races, telling them that to mix with your own kind is racist.

These, to me, are bigger concerns. If I had the means to wield some influence, even if by operating from the shadows, to counter these destructive tactics and put forth leaders who would attempt to guide the folk back to their senses and restore some balance, believe me, I'd do it. As for the spiritual aspects, like I said, that can't be forced. Instead, it would be my intention to restore religious freedom and end the attack on the traditions of our people. I'd find a way to make the lore accessible to those who seek it — which at this point, however fragmented it may be, the lore has become widely available. You only have to want to find it.
I remember how my grandfather led our family. He never preached, he was usually quiet, not saying much. But when he spoke, everyone shut up and listened. Most of the time, my matriarchal grandmother led the family, but he was the one who enforced the more important ethics when someone got out of line. He was the only true warrior in my immediate family, having volunteered for war at the age of 17, in a sense, the only true wolf. Much of my family are sheep following a flock, but not him. He ruled, and so long as he lived, our family was held intact, despite the weaknesses of many members of my family.
You don't have to preach to lead. Each family needs a leader, a true patriarch and matriarch. My family is now without both. I try to fill the role left vacant by my grandmother's passing, but I think my siblings and parents are beyond my control, so I concentrate my efforts on the family I have created. My child is the future of my family, and so she is the most important.
The purpose in saying all this is to provide an example of how each of us can be a positive force for preserving not only the lore, but our own folk. Look around you, at the people you see. How many families do you see which have no father figure? How many mothers fail to take their responsibilities to their children seriously, whose actions show poor characters. Women who are manipulative, materialistic, dishonest, dishonorable. What happened to the sacredness of women? Our society is raised by media, government indoctrination schools, celebrity worship, and manufactured love of authority.
Ghandi said to "be the change you wish to see in the world." That I what I'm trying to do. I cannot change the whole world, but I can plant the seeds and nourish them so that they will grow strong. There is a reason why family is the most important thing. It all starts with the family. If you want to be the change in this world, and have children of your own, make sure you set the example you want them to emulate. Teach them well to prepare them for life. Learn the lore together. And don't compromise your values.
Of course, probably everyone here is already thinking along the same lines.


Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:50 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.