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Odd dream- Grandparents, Ancestors, and Tyr 
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*I need to preface this with some small explanation: When I was younger my paternal grandparents were my closest relatives. My Nana in particular came from a line of Hexerei (Pa Dutch Odinists) and my Pop pop still avoids religion entirely after being afraid of his own "witch" grandmother from Austria. Talk about any religions was uncomfortable for him. They are wealthy, or at least, put up a good appearance of being wealthy- and quite wasteful. They lived in a house on a hill overlooking a golf course for the majority of my life until they had a house custom built for them in a 55+ community- and after they relocated, their personalities changed dramatically from being well educated, reasonable people to becoming hateful and easily manipulated by the media: forgoing the company of family in favor of the company of their new friends in their development. I went from speaking to them every day of my life before they moved to now reluctantly calling on holidays not knowing if the conversation will be pleasant or if they will be critical of me and the life I live that they have not even bothered to see for themselves- since despite several invitations they refuse to see what my husband and I made of our first purchased home. Pop Pop visited prior to me making the purchase-before his wealth he did carpentry. He was kind and wistful that day, and told me the land was once part of my great-grandmother's and he wished he moved back. Although we bought a house well within our means that we loved, Pop pop was "insulted" we did not walk away from this place because we were unable to negotiate the price more than I had already. He didn't help us financially in any way whatsoever, so I didn't care about his opinion on our decision to purchase. I haven't spoken to Nana in over a year- she said that she "didn't want me to remember her as she is now", but I can say my grandfather has picked up the phone each time I call, no matter which number I use. Over the past year, the conversations with my Pop pop have been stilted, but cordial. He is currently recovering from a broken hip and a broken foot. He didn't want any visitors, my dad and uncle visited anyway. I told him this confused me, and he replied simply: "You are the only one out of the three of you who actually listens. Every time they come it's a mess for Nana and we wish they would stay home as well."

Nana has dementia pretty badly. My pop pop was diagnosed with Alzheimer's... the only reason I do not visit them is because they do not want visitors. However, since they "have money" my uncle and father visit them anyway still jockeying for larger shares of a will they care more about than their actual parents. My uncle and my father look as much alike as two different color schemes of the same item in a catalog (although they would be angry to hear me say that). Uncle Jeff is a blonde with blue eyes, Dad is brunette with green. They are both generally slender and have similar facial features. They also despise each other. My uncle has no interest in extended family and my father remarried and "started over" by the attached kids to his new wife from other men.*

In the dream I just awoke from- My husband, my Uncle Jeff, and my aunt and I had to go back to the house on the hill for some reason. Throughout the dream, my uncle and my father were interchangeable, I think. The house was exactly as they left it- their expensive furniture untouched and my Nana's collections of Franklin Mint and Pzalzcraft porcelain figures was left exactly where they were when they moved over a decade ago. My husband was confused why they would leave everything behind- and Jeff and I explained that they didn't take much with them preferring to buy "all new" instead. We went upstairs to the master bedroom, the bed still made and everything still in place right to the jewelry boxes filled with Nana's diamond ankle bracelets and such.

My aunt began to take what she wanted, and Jeff asked me if there was anything I wanted- I said "I really don't need anything. But I think it's weird they moved literally nothing with them, not even the collectibles."
In my family, we used to have a player piano passed down through several generations during odd weather it would "smoke" and smell like my great grandfather, ironically, at the times he would have been unhappy with his decedents (usually infighting) it would reek of his cigars. My father sold it- however, in the dream it was in the bedroom as well. It belonged to my grandfather's ancestors. On top of the player piano were small photographs, and I said "Jeff, you are the oldest here- who are these people?" And if the photograph was of a relative in younger times I took it home with me to display in our study alter.

My husband called to me from the bathroom- inside the bathroom full of porcelain figures of nothing in particular, there was a heavy, solid, real gold statue of Tyr of great detail. I looked to my husband and said, "Do you think they even knew of my connection to Him?", since Tyr is actually the God of my maternal side and my husband replied "Anything is possible". Tyr was in front but facing the back wall when I picked him up from among the other statues and I took Him with me- the statue was heavy.

I took the statue and the pictures from the piano only- and a few pieces of sour candy I found that I used to enjoy as a child. I recall that the tops of their dressers were filthy an disorganized and I was upset in the dream because they were so OCD cleanly to the point of insulting the housekeeping of other;s I felt it was akin to hypocrisy to find such intentional disorganization where they would have insulted me for less. (They became quite hateful towards me after moving from the house on the hill.)

During the course of the dream, it kept changing who was with me- my estranged father or my emotionally distant blonde uncle. but mostly, it was my uncle. We are not far apart in age and I just recall saying in the dream "Jeff, you are the oldest here- who are in these pictures?" Mostly he would shrug, but rarely he would recall it being a deceased relative- no matter how poor the shape of the photographs, I took all he indicated were family.

I woke up. In real life the house on the hill was sold to a nice young couple with children, and my grandparents still live in a community of equally pretentious elderly people who look at my husband and I like we are barbarians for our tattoos and such.

Earlier this week I had two dreams on the same thing regarding Pop pop. In the first, something happened to Nana and we invited him over to calm him down (I don't know if he put her into a nursing home or she died- all I know was he was distraught). Here, there were two versions of the dream: In the first version, he was condescending about all of our home improvements and I looked him in the eye and said,

"If you actually bothered to remember your roots and how to live simply again, you wouldn't be such a miserable person. Ed and I have a good life here and we have happiness. We invited you over out of kindness. Out of all of us, I am pretty certain our dead relatives would be more ashamed of you than I." and he left shocked I stood up to him and clearly shamed.

In the second version, he arrived calm and kind. We had a wonderful day and he asked us if he could visit us again, and we said "You are welcome anytime!" and he said he wanted to come visit every Thursday and we were all happy.

For those of you skilled in dreams and visions, I appreciate your insights


Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:41 pm
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First off, I am just going to go through some of the symbols in the dream. The interpretation of symbols I use are MOSTLY Carl Jungs interpretations, but I also have other sources and my own intuition.

Uncles represent heritage and emerging awareness. It is fitting in the dream that you are asking him who certain people are in photographs.

Aunts represent family connection, heritage, and value, substitute for your mother, and aspects of yourself that you like or dislike.

Fathers represent authority and protection. That symbol can suggest for you to be more self reliant. Considering that you said he is your estranged father, it may have a slightly different meaning.

To dream that you are playing a piano indicates a quest for harmony in your life. Consider where the piano is placed as a clue as to what aspect of your life needs accordance. If no sound is coming out of the piano, then it implies a lack of confidence. You are not sure about how to express yourself and how to voice your beliefs.
You were not playing the piano, but it has to do with your family heritage and the image of the photographs on top of it and the family heirloom being sold years ago seems to magnify this symbol quite a bit. Also, with the piano being in your grandparents house and I am reading about a lot of family disharmony, I think this is a very important symbol. Not to mention what you said about it smoking and smelling like your great grandfather in times of unrest within the family.

Photographs indicate that there is a relationship that needs your attention. YOU ARE NOT LOOKING DEEP ENOUGH INTO THE PROBLEM. ALTERNATIVELY, the dream means that you are clinging on to the past or to some false hope. Consider who or what is on the photo. The image may be trying to take you back to a particular moment in time.
In this dream you are taking family photographs home to display on your altar. Altars can be a pun that you need to alter some behavior or it could be straightforward and having to do with spirituality.
To dream of your ancestors speaks to the fact that you are aware of your heritage and traditions and trying to preserve them. Once again, the whole imagery of the heirloom piano, with photographs that you take home to put on the altar seems very powerful to me. Was it powerful to you?

In this dream, I would say the bedroom may have something to do with secrets.

The color of gold is a very positive spiritual symbol. A gold statue of Tyr. Tyr being the god of war and justice as opposed to Foresti being the god of justice and reconciliation. Also, Tyr having a personal connection with you...but then you have to consider that surrounding it is porcelain - which is fragile and it seems like this family stuff going on is a fragile situation. Bathrooms are where we clean ourselves and rid ourselves of waste that we do not need.

You took home the statue of Tyr, photos, and candy from your childhood. The candy must have made you feel some pleasure. Spirituality, justice, relationships/issues of the past, and pleasure. Here, with the candy, is where I think of your nana saying that she doesn't want you to remember them as they are now.

Dressers represent intimate aspects of yourself that you are hiding and in the context of this dream, I would say it relates to your childhood. Being dirty represents low self esteem and a need to do some cleaning/purifying. Together, the dirty dresser makes a symbol that you should examine in your mind.

Grandparents home refers to longevity, security and good old fashion values. You need to lay a solid foundation in order to grow.


I am hesitant to say that the dream means "this or that", because it is full of symbolism and you know yourself, family, and ancestry better than anyone. I hope that I have broken it down into sections that make it easier for you to understand this for yourself.

The other dreams you mentioned. It seems like there is something weighing heavily on your mind (or subconscious which is still your mind.) Perhaps they are related.
I hate to make you think of this, but grandparents by nature are older members of the family and we do not live forever. Eventually we all die and it pains me a little to type this or think this, because like you, I was extremely close to my grandparents. Sometimes dreams prepare us for the inevitable. I am not, by any means, saying that anyone is going to die. I have no clue about things like that. However, you asked for insight and that is what dreams give us. Please do not see this last statement as a prophecy of doom. It is not.

My personal thoughts on your grandparents, alzheimers/dementia, retirement communities, and visitation. While it is admirable that your reason for not visiting is because they said they don't want visitors, you also make mention of their minds deteriorating. I witnessed this with my grandaddy. The last year of his life he got bad dementia where he sometimes he thought he was a football player or boxer again like he was in his youth. He also did a little hustling back in the 40's and he started thinking that my parents were in a conspiracy with the FBI to trap him. My grandaddy had been nothing but a gentleman and pillar of the community for 50 years before all of this. There was no rational reason for it.
Because of our closeness, he always knew who I was. My presence calmed him. I had never seen him cry in my entire life until this last year of his life when he hugged me and was crying because he knew that he was losing his mind and had to be taken care of and it weighed heavily upon him. He felt like he went from being the patriarch to being a burden. He had told me before that he did not like me seeing him that way. This situation was different because he was living with my family and we were taking care of him as a family. He was a retired school teacher and they don't have money to go to retirement homes. Plus we have a very tight knit family.
Hearing the tale of your grandparents makes me wonder if this is their way of coping with the changes in their life. Perhaps it has to do with their pride and has nothing to do with wanting to hurt anyone or looking down on anyone. Maybe it is just a defense mechanism.
This sounds like a fragile situation (like procelain). With the proper respect, you can handle porcelain without breaking or chipping it.
I hope this helps and I hope you find what you are looking for.
P.S. Just an idea...but if you did want to see them and have old family pictures, maybe you could arrange a visit so that you can write family information down on the back of some photos for posterity...or maybe talk them into breaking out old photos to show you for old timesake and for the future. Just an idea to help you connect with them again. Elderly people usually love things like that.


Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:45 pm
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Tyrienne, if I were in your shoes, I would take sweinodinsons advice about gently trying to reestablish personal contact with your grandparents. Perhaps some gentle nudges, like dropping off a small gift, either leaving it at the door, or knock and give it in person but don't go in unless they genuinely want you to. The idea with the family photos isn't bad, either.

I won't comment regarding your dreams, as nothing I could add would be of greater value than the previous post. But I do wish you success in resolving the issues you are facing, and hope you can strengthen your family relationships.
Regarding your father, having been through something similar with my own father, if that relationship is important to you, perhaps it isn't too late. My father remarried when I was three, but my mother had given custody of me to him, so I wasn't physically separated from him, but the new wife and the children they had together did negatively impact our relationship. I love my siblings, and don't them for what happened. It was solely the adults' part that was at fault. When I was nearly 17, I moved in with my grandmother because I couldn't deal with it anymore.
After moving to Germany a year later, marrying, and spending to me away, it got to a point where we were estranged for some time. There were various factors complicating things, but I always loved my dad. The hardest thing to do was accept him as he is. I never gave up trying to win him back into my life, to have a healthy relationship, and over time, he slowly came around. I was able to forgive him for his mistakes (even if I never said it to him), and I'm better off for it.

If it is worth it to you, then don't give up, not on your father or your grandparents. It will be worse to have regrets when they are gone. To regret that you didn't do more or try harder, even if you are blameless, that feeling will nag you for years.

You sound like a wonderful person, who cares deeply for the people in your life. I hope in time your loved ones will come to appreciate you. Perhaps they do and just don't know how to say it or show it.


Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:51 pm
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Something else that I just considered: The bathroom/ waste room where things are discarded was where the very positive symbol of the golden statue of Tyr was at. You pulled it out of a room where things go to waste and took it home with you.
I would definitely take that as an encouraging compound symbol. I don't know who all in your family still follows the old ways, but this part of the dream makes me FEEL (and this is just a feeling) like the gods have picked you out as a person who is trying to salvage your family's spiritual heritage. Be encouraged and be blessed.


Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:50 pm
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sweinodinsson wrote:
Something else that I just considered: The bathroom/ waste room where things are discarded was where the very positive symbol of the golden statue of Tyr was at. You pulled it out of a room where things go to waste and took it home with you.
I would definitely take that as an encouraging compound symbol. I don't know who all in your family still follows the old ways, but this part of the dream makes me FEEL (and this is just a feeling) like the gods have picked you out as a person who is trying to salvage your family's spiritual heritage. Be encouraged and be blessed.


This is similar to what I was thinking as I was reading your account. It may be up to you to pick up the pieces of your family when your grandparents are gone. Their wealth, and how it is divided may be the key. Since "you are the only one out of the three of you who actually listens" it would not surprise me to learn that you may be chosen to be the executor of their will or at least play an important part in it.

One thing that I find curious is the positioning of the Tyr statue. I would be curious to know if he was facing anything in particular or simply had his back turned to those that had been using the room. As Sweinodinsson points out, the bathroom is a room for toileting, but in this modern age it is also a room for cleaning and readying oneself - a function of renewal. The heavy, gold statue could also be seen as permanent and enduring. That it was surrounded by other figures that were meaningless and fragile would seem to be rather symbolic as well.

Whatever the meaning, it is quite interesting. Thank you for sharing it, and more of your family dynamics, with us.


Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:13 am
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Everything said in response was accurate. My family raised me with Odin and our beliefs.

To answer questions, yes I still love my family but I will not go where I am unwanted. I am trying to single handedly preserve our family history of Odinism, and my grandparents left our ways as 'provincial' in chasing wealth and prestige... My grandfather was proud to be the first white collar employee of our line. He and his sons helped shape modern computer programming from the 1960's through the 1990's...as nothing more than a footnote in some textbooks and a few patents.
The Tyr statue was on the back of the toilet facing the wall. They don't collect photographs like conventional old people except the ones that project an image of 'success', like when I was a beautiful senior in high school, or my father wearing a tie (he prefers Hawaiian shirts)

The pictures of the ancestors I took were all taken before I was born, mostly great aunts and uncles. I did not play the piano, it was broken in real life and the dream. My family has not been whole since my great grandmother died when I was 12. Elderly relatives are dying and not even giventhe respect of a funeral when I can legally perform any service but Catholic for my family, including Lutheran by invoking my training as 'multifaith' in chaplaincy and possess all the items and appropriate attire for that and most other common faiths.

My great grandfather bought part of a cemetery for our family. One of my older cousins was cremated, and I was told by a cousin not only had no funeral, but his bag of ashes were 'put to rest' in the weekly garbage can. I was horrified. My father refused to see him in hospice...'angry at him for dying' despite being asked for by name by the dying man.

That was the very beginning of my estrangement from my father.

My grandparents were horrible to my extended family and constantly gloated about their financial success while putting others down. In 2011 I had a nervous breakdown and hospitalized with an unsuccessful suicide attempt. My grandfather feigned concern in a voicemail only to trick me into calling him back so he could tell key i shamed our family by failing to die.

That moment over rides all positive memories I had of him.

The cousin who died? It was his mother (also dead) in one of the photos as a younger, beautiful woman she once was... I can not recall anyone but her. That cousin (adopted by my grandparents as a child and raised as my 'uncle') I was only able to locate because of her funeral....where I was told he was in ICU and was able to intervene to get him hospice instead of more torture. Because of attending her funeral I never would have learned my degrees and training were sufficient to volunteer as a chaplain...which I do for free mostly for the grieving and suicidal.

Before he died, he tried rehab 2 years before. The day he was released, my grandfather (his adoptive father) arrived at his house to berate him for being a "drunken loser" and an "embarrassment". Because of the actions of my line of the family- my father, grandparents, and uncle- I am unable to get close to the blood relatives they hurt.

Since I am not rich and wear tattoos, I have been slandered as well and discarded by my grandparents. My father sees me as a reminder of his failures as a father to protect me from my mother's criminal levels of physical abuse including strangulation and years of starvation. Via therapy, I learned "better than mom" does not automatically mean "good people".
I am conflicted because my family is Hexerei with a rich history, but I feel ashamed they are such poor examples of honor and also ashamed I do not have the mental health to endure them while I personally place very high value on family to all Odinism.

Being a Lokean in the public communities mirrored the treatment I receive from my family. I earned degrees from an accredited university that grant me the privilege of lay chaplaincy in hospitals and hospices. My grandparents view it not as 'real work' because I believe in the old way that charging is gauche and accepting payments for such a vocation invalidates the work I do. The public community does not accept me in the US because I am considered Lokean. My maternal grandmother is the only other 'open' believer of our Gods- she is from Latvia and wonderful. My father only has Loki and he prays to his maternal great grandparents....a braucher grandmother and his metalergist grandfather. He has been 'open' when it suits him...but never in any community setting with other Odinists unless it is other families raised like us, with us in our home community. His best friend as a child was also raised Odinists but died young flying a plane. He lost another pagan best friend a decade later.

To me, my relationship with my grandparents has been long dead. When I used to attempt to visit they would do nothing but attempt to provoke and demean me...until my spouse had enough of it and said "no more"

The rest of the family uses them as an atm. They and my father are both confused that don't 'need' them and ask for nothing. I prefer my freedom.

As nice as even a small inheritance would make towards our mortgage, I don't seek or expect one. If anything is left to me it will make my life extraordinarily difficult as others contest the will for a larger share and my husband has said he will fight my desire to let the vultures have it and be done with them all.

If I missed a question, ask me. I am not shy and do not wish to hide anything.

I think about my grand parents and father daily...confused about why they live the way they do and without love, frith, and not even honor in any way we were all taught by those long dead now. It still matters to me to be honest, hospitable, and kind.


Last edited by Tyrienne on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:58 am
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Tyrienne wrote:
Everything said in response was accurate. My family raised me with Odin and our beliefs.
...............

The Tyr statue was on the back of the toilet facing the wall.

This brings more to my mind, and I would like to know what Tyrsman thinks of it as well. I do not have a strong connection with Tyr, myself. I am closest to Heimdallr, Odin, and Freyja(recently thanks to someones advice to talk to her).

In the toilet room inside of your grandparents home is where there was a gold statue of Tyr, on the back of the toilet facing the wall. There are two gods of justice, one of reconciliation and one of war. Of course, you know that Tyr is god of justice and war. After reading more of what you said, I am not seeing any reconciliation (not that it would be a bad thing if it happened). Tyr's back was turned on people who are laying things to waste...perhaps the ones laying the old traditions to waste.
What a powerful dream. This has been very interesting. Once again, be encouraged and blessed. If it were me, I would probably thank Tyr in some way with some rite.

One last thing that I would say because I care about your well being. I don't know if you hate anyone in your family, nor do I need to know. I used to hate somebody in my family. My grandaddy who I was typing about before did as well...he told me that he hated his dad until after his dad had died. He told me that was a mistake and that I should find a way to lay my ill feelings to rest before this particular person dies. good luck sister.


Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:28 pm
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Thank you. I hate no one....I feel shame and regret about my paternal line and I do not acknowledge my mother as human, but more akin to a rabid bear I successfully avoid. She is still abusive to my brother and grandmother and has very little humanity.

I used to feel great shame in never feeling love towards her and by that account, I do not connect to middle aged females well. Not even Goddesses. My earliest memories are beatings.

She was not taught the old religion like I was by Latvian aunties... They did not care for how she treated grandma or I while they lived.


Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:33 pm
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sweinodinsson wrote:

In the toilet room inside of your grandparents home is where there was a gold statue of Tyr, on the back of the toilet facing the wall. There are two gods of justice, one of reconciliation and one of war. Of course, you know that Tyr is god of justice and war. After reading more of what you said, I am not seeing any reconciliation (not that it would be a bad thing if it happened). Tyr's back was turned on people who are laying things to waste...perhaps the ones laying the old traditions to waste.


^^this makes me wonder. Could that also be Tyr's way of saying it's OK for you to turn your back on those who have thrown away their honour and loyalty to family? Of course, you would knows better than anyone what your dream means. That is just my own impression.

sweinodinsson wrote:
One last thing that I would say because I care about your well being. I don't know if you hate anyone in your family, nor do I need to know. I used to hate somebody in my family. My grandaddy who I was typing about before did as well...he told me that he hated his dad until after his dad had died. He told me that was a mistake and that I should find a way to lay my ill feelings to rest before this particular person dies. good luck sister.


^^ these are wise words. I would add just one thing. From my own experiences with injustice and mistreatment by one member of my family in particular- what I learned was that I couldn't go my whole life carrying the grief and heartache that years of abuse had left me. I finally decided to let go, to send the negativity back to this person in a sort of a magic rite, for lack of a better description. I forgave her, but I never expected to see or hear from her again. I assumed that bridge was burned. However, quite surprisingly, the death of my grandmother brought a genuine reconciliation and a new beginning of a relationship with her that was not tainted by all the strife of the past.
Sometimes forgiving is really about setting yourself free, even if all ties are severed. It's OK to walk away when there is nothing more you can do to improve the situation. If the people in question have a change of heart, perhaps they might come around on their own, but don't be disappointed if they don't.

I am sorry for the difficulty you have with your family, and wish you all the best in healing yourself of the pain the have caused you.


Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:45 pm
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Fand wrote:
sweinodinsson wrote:

In the toilet room inside of your grandparents home is where there was a gold statue of Tyr, on the back of the toilet facing the wall. There are two gods of justice, one of reconciliation and one of war. Of course, you know that Tyr is god of justice and war. After reading more of what you said, I am not seeing any reconciliation (not that it would be a bad thing if it happened). Tyr's back was turned on people who are laying things to waste...perhaps the ones laying the old traditions to waste.


^^this makes me wonder. Could that also be Tyr's way of saying it's OK for you to turn your back on those who have thrown away their honour and loyalty to family? Of course, you would knows better than anyone what your dream means. That is just my own impression.

sweinodinsson wrote:
One last thing that I would say because I care about your well being. I don't know if you hate anyone in your family, nor do I need to know. I used to hate somebody in my family. My grandaddy who I was typing about before did as well...he told me that he hated his dad until after his dad had died. He told me that was a mistake and that I should find a way to lay my ill feelings to rest before this particular person dies. good luck sister.


^^ these are wise words. I would add just one thing. From my own experiences with injustice and mistreatment by one member of my family in particular- what I learned was that I couldn't go my whole life carrying the grief and heartache that years of abuse had left me. I finally decided to let go, to send the negativity back to this person in a sort of a magic rite, for lack of a better description. I forgave her, but I never expected to see or hear from her again. I assumed that bridge was burned. However, quite surprisingly, the death of my grandmother brought a genuine reconciliation and a new beginning of a relationship with her that was not tainted by all the strife of the past.
Sometimes forgiving is really about setting yourself free, even if all ties are severed. It's OK to walk away when there is nothing more you can do to improve the situation. If the people in question have a change of heart, perhaps they might come around on their own, but don't be disappointed if they don't.

I am sorry for the difficulty you have with your family, and wish you all the best in healing yourself of the pain the have caused you.



Walking away is best... but as to the second, I do harbor resentment towards my father but part of Hexerei belief is in performing any action that can be considered as violating the natural order of things (anything from trying to curse or to sever something natural) has some psychic and/or physical consequences to the literal health of the one who does the ritual severing.

In the case of my grandparents, they chose to drop ties with me- they stated they no longer wished contact, that is on their orlog, not my own.

For my father, it seems more complicated. We are both Odinist, both Lokeans- likely care about the other's well being, but also I cannot stand his constant lying and complete lack of spine. (and unwillingness to take medication)

In some ways, as hard as it is for me to admit- he is EXACTLY the type of Lokean that people think exists. He flaunts rules, has too much pride in his intellect (which he will describe at great length), cannot take responsibility for his actions unless you literally corner him, takes unnecessary risks, and has a weak personality easily manipulated by those he keeps company out of his fear of being alone.

With that being said- he can also be a fun conversationalist, incredibly informative, and has deep empathic wounds from ever compounding regrets of said poor decisions, which lead either to reinventing his own narrative entirely or moments of crushing depression. He is also pretty good at household repairs...however, it is only in such a way that he can fix almost anything- but to work only for him and to entirely void warranty in the process. Also, with each home repair he always manages to find new and ingenious ways to end up in the ER. In this time not speaking to him, I have learned that when things are beyond my skillset and toolset to repair, calling a plumber or other professional who insures their work is much less of a trying experience, works out better in the long run, and is often cheaper because they know what they are doing, the correct way, the first time. (instead of repeat visits to the hardware store).

I guess my father believed the only way he could be of value was by being useful in attempting to "repair" things- but honestly, all my brother and I would prefer out of the man is long walks in the park talking about Philosophy. He is also completely insufferable as a human as he repairs things as well with his abrasive, condescending nature and almost magical ability to see himself as blameless for making problems worse than when he found them. (I just had a hired plumber fix our sewer line today- it was nice not to be screamed at for not possessing obscure parts or tools)

Watching my family dynamic sometimes gives me an unusual perspective about how we relate to our patron Gods and embody their archaetypes.

Tyr came into my life later- sometimes, I look at other Lokeans and feel like I don't "fit" the archaetype, and perhaps, as I tried to project my own concept of honor onto Lokeans as a whole without taking common flaws into consideration.

Loki's virtues are many: Clever, amusing, blunt creative, possessing great ingenuity, charm, and wit in conversation.
Lokeans can be fun if not for their self hatred, insecurity, and general flightiness that can lead to insincerity and complicated problems in their lives if they don't have some sort of grounding in reality or a vested interest in anything in particular.

By the same token, Tyr's Kenning is "The Unsmiling One", and other people of Tyr I have met have been curt, taciturn, cynical, pragmatic, and/or often isolated. Tyrsfolk are loyal, reliable, and honest- but prone to self-criticism, high ethical standards which we hold to ourselves we hold to others and perfectionism. Additionally, every single Tyrsperson I have met, myself included is an expert at grexxing/grousing while keeping a face in public. We are honest, but the pressure that builds from keeping our annoyance at people in general to ourselves most of the time except in very specific moments is frustrating. I know, because I see Tyrsman in this forum doing the same I do. In his case, it is his religion he has hid for years for the greater perceived good of maintaining family harmony- for me, I keep most of my Pennsylvania Dutch stuff to myself as much as possible no matter how inaccurate or ridiculously my ancestry is newly portrayed unless I can point out obvious hypocrisy in actions

Tyrsvolk can make people feel guilty for their own failings, but most people only regret in their failings of interactions with other people- where as a Tyrsman/woman regrets inner failings of times of not being able to solve an inner conflict or achieve mastery in our undertakings to level much higher than many would expect of themselves in similar circumstances. A Tyrsman can build a beautiful cabinet, but will obsess over the single joint that was not measured correctly, or any number of flaws that others would not even care about if they were aware of them.
If you ask a Lokean to build a cabinet, A Lokean won't build a cabinet conventionally- they will somehow taking unused items from around the house and make it WORK like a cabinet and ask for praise because it functions.

I think I am somewhat both. I would make a cabinet out of spare parts spending as little as possible, and then constantly obsess about how to make it more functional and appear less like I randomly put it together (which I likely did).

Perhaps, that is a good reason not to isolate ourselves and divide ourselves up by whom we feel the greatest affinities- we compensate for each other's shortcomings as each embodied archetype helps us strive to become powerful and inspirational in our own right... maybe we move through having different patrons throughout life so we can find ourselves.

Where I live in Pennsylvania, we have local Odinist Gods, such as Einwecher Yeager and Hexenwolves. Herr Yeager was a man who dedicated his afterlife to making sure the Pa Deitsch did not starve- he is seen as something between a Vaetirr and a minor God figure. He is associated with the hunt of Odin and Frau Holle and his horn can be heard over this region (in theory) either as a warning, a warding off, or calling in game in profusion. He's neat.

The Hexenwolves- Pa Deitsch folklore that diverges. Basically werewolves, another type of vaetirr. To the Hexerei-Deitsch, they are seen as protective, that the "Gods have your back". To the Braucherei, they are considered an ill omen.

My family taught me the difference between "Hexerei" and "Braucherei" was that Hexerei uses the names of our Gods, and the Brauchers do the same actions but replace the names and words with Christianity.

Lately, my observation is Braucherei are what would be termed as "fluffy" and will avoid facing conflict at any cost- seeking comfort in popularity and adoration. Whereas a Hexerei doesn't care what you think about them and believes the opinions of Gods is more important than the opinions of men- Hexerei don't get invited to parties unless it's a seance and the person wants you to remove some sort of curse.

Brauchers send hopes and prayers. Hexers will bleed for you if they think you are worthy of it and the cause is serious enough to warrant such a ritual by the person.

Personally, I am also learning that Hexerei is genetic and not taught- it is a talent that comes with age, where as Brauchers have lessons.

As more time goes forward living here surrounded by both, there are clear differences emerging but I cannot tell if they were always there or simply a reflection of the modern zietgeist of our people.

I have never met a non-folkish Hexerei, Brauchers still within the plain (within the Amish/Mennonite/Hutterite)communities are even more Folkish and very cagey, and neo-Braucherei are universally universalist.

I was told as a child by my great grandmother that if you are asked to pay to be taught any traditional art by your own ethnic group- that the training is not authentic...however, she passed away when I was 8 years old.

Then, I see that there are people paying to be trained as Brauchers... and it didn't set well with me. Then my father started practicing out of nowhere and succeeding at it- no initiations, no fanfare. He just started doing Hexerei rituals with a high rate of success.

Shortly after, I tried likewise- turns out probability is malleable through ritual even without shelling out money for courses.

I have often been frustrated by the conflicting stories between the the most open narrative of Urglaawe being at odds with the culture I knew as I (and many other families I know) were raised. For example, the folkish Hexers/Brauchers feel uncomfortable being photographed. In my family despite 3 generations separate from our plain-folk ancestry, we don't take pictures of each other. Taking a picture was seen as taking part of the soul. The only pictures we really have or post will be of formal occasions or pictures for the sake of beauty "This is what I look like, are you happy now?"...not of regular, family gatherings, or anything of actual emotional importance outside of weddings. That does not seem to be the case with universalism

So- There is also the fear if I officially sever my emotional attachment to my father I would be performing a verbot... I wouldn't really be as strongly into Odinism without my father's influence, and I wear the same symbol for ritual he did/does (Not a hammer). On the other hand, my maternal side is also Odinist- just Latvian instead of Pa German.

Yes, he is a shithead, he acts like an *******, he has more baggage than a fed-ex plane in December, but he is also one of only TWO living relatives I have a connection to that can teach me about my own blood- and as far as I can tell, being a Hexerei or asking to be trained as one is like a white man going to a navajo reservation asking to be a tribal shaman.

I just channel everything into crisis chaplaincy.

Anyway, I intentionally snuck all of this in this thread because it has been frustrating me about my local community for some time and I have very little outlet without angering the SJW's by accidentally offending them with non-revisionist history.

The history of the Pa Germans is libertarian conservative, and very much based on local family ties above global concern. The newer Urglaawe seem to embody the opposite.

It puts me in a very awkward position in several aspects of my life where I truly have to think hard about what I say, to whom, and thinking hard "is offering my knowledge on this worth the frustration and harassment I will experience? Will this lead to an actual improvement in our religion or devolve into more nonsense despite my best intentions?"

Generally, I am only speaking up on issues of contention that directly impact my life. This is one time I am speaking up- here- buried in the middle of this forum. Vielan danke.

In anycase- the entire situation with my father is needlessly complicated. I am better off at this time in my life with him at a distance, but my own nature prevents me from feeling resentment towards him for his numerous failings in being a decent human towards me without writing him off entirely. :)

So...what say you? Write him off and be a happy orphan or continue to remain estranged and bitter but not officially shun/nithe from me? :)


Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:18 am
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:35 am
Posts: 543
I understand the conflicted feelings you have for your father. It is the same for me with my father. What I said about letting go can be at various levels. There may be some people you need to just walk away from, but as for your father, just try to forgive, understand and let go of the negativity. My own father and I used to fight constantly when I was growing up. Now, I never even raise my voice or lose my temper with him. All I can do is accept him as he is, make the best of an imperfect relationship, and refuse to enter into a confrontation with him, as it accomplishes nothing.
I hope you can overcome the obstacles you face.


Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:08 pm
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