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Norse Gods and Tuatha De Danann 
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Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:46 pm
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A few years ago after completing my study of the origins of the Abrahamic religions (and subsequently choosing to no longer follow that path upon learning the truth) and after having my dream calling, I began to study the Tuatha De Danann, the gods and goddesses of ancient Ireland. I shared my interests in ancient religions with an open-minded friend who then confided in me his belief in Norse Gods, which immediately peaked my interest and eventually brought me here.

In my studies it seems as though scholars believe that Odin/Loki are the Norse equivalent of the Tuatha De Danann god Lugh. In fact, in the book, "The Dolmens of Ireland" many correlations are made between the gods of Ireland and Scandinavia.

Have any of you come across this in your studies of your religion? If so, what is your opinion based on your research?

My findings so far indicate that the gods and goddesses of the Tuatha De Danann came first and with a blending of cultures during migration and invasion, were adopted by the Scandinavian people. If anyone has any historical texts which could disprove this theory, please post the information here.

I find this excerpt from "The Dolmens of Ireland" quite interesting:
"In Welsh legends Danu's (mother of the Tuatha de Danann) name takes the form of Don, and this D6n is the wife of Beli. This Beli Professor Rhys equates with Balor. Each of them, at all events, has a grandson called respectively Llew (in Welsh) and Lug (in Gaedhelic). But Lug, who kills Balor, is equivalent (mythologically) to Loke, who kills Baldr, — Beli, Balor, and Baldr being, as we have seen, names attributable to a common origin. Now, Baldr's wife is Nanna, and the same mutation which gives to Athi alias Dathi the further alias Nathi,J would give to Ana and Dana the further alias of Nanna. The process by which the "mother of the gods," and the " nurse of heroes " § came to be variously apportioned in mythology, first as wife to one chief deity and then to another, first to the father and then to the son, it is not difficult to comprehend. Odin's wife, again, is called Frigg, which (the f being exchanged for b, as see above) is identical with the name of Brigg, the Dagda's daughter. As these names appear before us then, Odin, the Allfather, divine ancestor of the Teutonic peoples, has for wife Frigg, who is equivalent to Brigg, daughter of the Dagda the Allfather, divine ancestor of the Tuatha D£ Danann. Odin and Frigg have a son called Baldr, killed by means of Loke, the light-god, and whose wife is Nanna, which equals Ana or Dana, mother of the gods of the Tuatha De Danann who, again, is Don, the wife of Beli (an older form of Baldr) in Welsh mythology. Or, by the contrary process, we have the Dagda, called also Eochaid the Allfather, whose wife is Buan, or Ana, or Dana, equal to Nanna, wife of Baldr, son of Odin the Allfather, and his wife Frigg, whose name, as we have seen, is identical with that of Brigg, daughter of the Dagda the All- father, and Buan, Ana or Dana, or Nanna, his wife. This is a mythological jumble indeed, but it can be no mere accident, and would in itself go a long way to prove, were there no other evidence, that the Irish and Norse systems are one, not in the sense of having been evolved independently from one common Aryan source in ages of remote antiquity, but in that of having been identical in comparative recent times. The very scheme of the mythological systems of Ireland and Scandinavia are identical. Take, for example, the triplets of correlative divinities. In one case the individuals appear to be the same. In the Norse version we have Bor and Bestla ; in the Irish, Eochaid Fedlech, and Crofinna ; — in each case two pairs of mythical beings, from the former of whom descend the triplet Odin, Haenir, and LoSur; and from the latter Bres (= Eochaid), Nar, and Lothar. LoSur and Lothar are identical ; Nar and Haettz*r (there is also a Nar in Norse mythology) may be so also, while Bres is merely an adjective, meaning " great." For myself, I think that while Irish and Icelandic mythology are clearly closely related, the latter, in the form in which we receive it, is the younger of the two. Odin or Othin, and Oisin, each regarded as the Orpheus of northern peoples, were probably once the same, but it is sufficient for the Scandinavian system to ascend to Odin, whereas the Irish version carries us up to Finn his father, and to Cumhal (or Humal ?), beyond him again. Loke, too, with his tricky ways, has degenerated from the far more serious personage Lug, the Tuatha De Danann god, who kills his grand father Balor, and whose divinity asserted itself so markedly in Gaul. In the name Cermad or Cearmna, son of the Dagda, and father of a triplet of Tuatha De Danann kings, we may have the Norse HermoSr, son of Odin."

Sorry that was so long, but I felt the need to include it to show the similarities. Please know that I am in no way disparaging Odinism...I have a profound respect for this belief. As I have stated before...I am a student and seeker trying to find my way and my gods. It is my nature to research and study before choosing anything...especially something as important as my religion.

ANY insight, knowledge, personal opinions and beliefs are welcome.

I seek your wisdom OB members.


Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:42 pm
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RedValkyrie,

That was a very good and thought provoking post. For how complicated it sounded, it was well written also. It prompted me to more question hat I have instead of answers for you. I am certain there are others here that can answer more in depth than I, but I will say a few points.

First, considering that Odinism and Hinduism have similarities and are very much tied to the same background, it would seem as though something much closer geographically would in turn be related in some respect. One of the challenging things that will be faced is a certain lack of records. As most everything was passed by oral tradition for awhile, plenty of information could have been lost or distorted. Hence, much can potentially be deduced from a scholarly manner about odinism from the study of Hinduism. Hinduism, being VERY old, has plenty of surviving information and texts that correlate to odinism, much like you description of Tuatha De Danann.

I am curious to see others post with more ideas and information on this subject.


Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:06 pm
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it is my experience that during study you will encounter many similarities between the beliefs and pantheons of the Norse and other religions... Some of it occurs through the spread that took place on raids and trade routes and basic traveling. Still there are some similarities that cannot be explained by that. It has been said that Odin (for example) has many names. The speculation being that whenever he visited a different group of people they gave to him a different name. It would be logical to assume then that this may have happened with the other gods and goddesses as well. As for determining which pantheon came first- that may be nearly impossible. It would depend on your being able to determine which group of people were first settled in their land and practicing religion. With so much written history having been burnt by christians, and the lack of written history prior to that, this task has proven to be pretty much impossible for the scientists who focus on that.

For what it's worth, I started my seeking years ago with the celts, primarily because of my maternal ancestry being traced back to the Picts. I myself was unable to feel any connection at all to those gods...it just felt empty for me. Much later, when I had my dream calling, it was specifically Odin who called to me, and still does. At that time I had little to no knowledge of the Norse gods or of the Odinistic worldview. After my dream, I started looking into the Norse gods, and eventually found my way to the OB, largely because of things my father had said to me before he died, and because of another dream I had. What I found is a path that I already shared almost identical views with. It was already what I believed- I just hadn't had a name for it before.

I believe in the existence of many gods, all the gods. I think it is important to listen closely- to yourself, to the world around you, listen to your blood- and listen especially to those who call you. We should choose a path that we not only know to be true, but one that also speaks to us individually.

I know I didn't answer your question, but I hope the insight helps.


Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:17 pm
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That is a fantastic post RedValkyrie, thank you for taking the time to share it. As WarHorse Njord your communication skills are impressive.

I too am of mixed Irish and Scandanavian decent. My father's side of my family tree is mostly Irish - I'm among the 21% of Irish males who share Naill of the Nine Hostages as a common ancestor (that has always made St Patrick's day a little special for me). Although I find the Celtic gods extremely intresting, they just don't call to me the way the Norse gods do. Just like RavenCall, when I found my way home I discovered I have been here all my life and just had not realized what I was.

The similarities and the connection between the Celtic and Norse mythology is something that although I have noticed, I have never pursued academically. I'm looking forward to the discussion this thread generates. Since I would have little of value to contribute, I'm just goin to grab a beer, have a seat in the corner and take notes.


Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:44 pm
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Tyrsman - thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject. It is very difficult to find which came first and as is often the case with history, it depends on who is telling the story.

Honestly, in this particular case, unlike that of my Abrahamic studies, it doesn't really matter which came first, Irish or Norse. I am searching for the grain of truth that is always at the core of any "myth." I don't think these gods are imaginary, though they may have taken on mythical proportions through storytelling. I believe our ancestors knew something we didn't...saw something we can no longer see. For whatever reason, I feel called to these beliefs...to learn everything I can about them...due diligence, if you will...so that when I choose my path, I will never look back.


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Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:40 pm
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if you're looking for the roots of the lore, then Hinduism is the starting place. The ancient Vedas. That is where it begins.


Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:52 pm
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Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:53 pm
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Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:54 pm
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I saw the link, Red.

Thank you for sharing it. Feel free to post more pieces of similar information as you find it.

Nice avatar, by the way. ;-)


Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:31 pm
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Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:45 pm
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well now, that IS interesting lol.... You remember when WarHorse said he had one for you? lol.....


Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:17 pm
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Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:38 pm
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actually, it was me that found it for you, if he doesn't still have the link I might


Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:49 pm
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Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:58 pm
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http://azadikhahan.com/wp-content/files/2013/06/515.jpg

if the size isn't right, all you need to do is download the image, open it using the paint program, go to "resize", click the option that says "pixels" and enter a value of 80x80 or smaller, and then re-save it.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:02 pm
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Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:09 pm
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Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:16 pm
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Your two previous avatars were both really good but this one is something else. It evokes a much more emotional feeling, at least for me. Physical beauty combined with depth of soul is a rare and precious thing.

I've always liked the metaphor of a woman in armor. A cold, hard exterior protecting a beautiful and delicate interior. It's just the opposite of the truth of a real women- a soft and beautiful exterior that is protected by a hard inner strength.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:35 pm
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Tyrsman wrote:
Your two previous avatars were both really good but this one is something else. It evokes a much more emotional feeling, at least for me. Physical beauty combined with depth of soul is a rare and precious thing.

I've always liked the metaphor of a woman in armor. A cold, hard exterior protecting a beautiful and delicate interior. It's just the opposite of the truth of a real women- a soft and beautiful exterior that is protected by a hard inner strength.


Thank you for describing exactly how this avatar made me feel. There is also a sadness in her expression...a longing that I know all to well. The moment I saw her, I knew she was me. And remarkably she looks so much like me it haunts me. I don't know if that makes sense at all, but it is the only way I can express my reaction to her.

I am so glad WarHorse and Ravencall had a different file than I did so that I was able to post it. To me it is a sign that I was meant to find this forum.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:47 pm
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Where to start!? This could be a lengthy reply.

The Celts, Germans and Scandinavians have links between their myths, cultures and striking resemblances between their religious symbols.

Proto Celtic people can be traced back to the La Tene Culture and Halstatt Culture as far back as 800BC, if we go further back to the Urnfield, Tumulus, Unetice and Bell Beaker cultures which stretch from the Iron Age back through the Bronze Age to the Beakers of pre historic Western Europe/Neolithic times (2800BC) we can see these cultures covered parts large area of Central Europe. The Celts and some of the Germanic tribes originated from the same area of Europe, naturally then there would have been similarities in culture but as time goes by there will be differences, huge differences.

The Celts, were known as the Keltoi to the Greeks and Celtae to the Romans. As early as 500BC the Keltoi can be traced back to in Greek literature. They were a band of nomadic warriors of various ethnic traditions who caused considerable problems to the Roman Empire in the last centuries before Christ. From the fifth century BC there are written references of roving warrior bands in modern day Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Austria, Switzerland and southern Germany. From here they migrated to Gaul, the Iberian peninsula to the Black Sea and Asia Minor and to the British Isles. In the first century BC Caesar began the Gallic wars, resulting in conquest through most of the Celtic lands, however Ireland was not. When Christianisation occurred in Rome, the empire followed suit. For the Irish Celts they continued polytheist pagan beliefs up until the 7th century, although Christianity had arrived on Ireland two centuries previously. What is extraordinary is that the traditional myths and legends survived, were recorded and used for learning purposes after the country had converted.

In the 1st century AD the German tribes are documented by the the Roman Tacitus in his Germania and by Julius Caesar in the previous century, the Romans knew Germania to be the area between the Rhine and the Danube, as far as the Vistula including northern Denmark and southern parts of Norway and Sweden. Caesar described the people's living east of the Rhine as Germans and to the west the Celts. This is probably far too simplistic, as some of the tribes he called German are now thought to have been Celtic speaking. In the fifth and sixth the Germanic tribes migrated and settled in Gaul, Italy, Spain, North Africa and modern day England.

The Scandinavians, who are from the same stock as the north Germans, are well documented as being sea faring traders, warriors and pirates, who in the eighth century began their own expansion into foreign lands. I'm not going to insult your intelligence by documenting their exploits. However, what we do know is their culture is very similar to the Celts and the Germans. They are described as quarrelsome, over fond of drinking and great warriors. The Vikings settled in Ireland, Dublin (Black Pool) for example, As we know they colonised Iceland, the last bastion of pagan belief and home of Snorri Sturluson. When the Northmen arrived on Iceland the only other inhabitants were Irish hermits.

As we can now see there is a link between the southernmost Celtic pagans of pre 500BC to the Northmen of Scandinavia and Iceland of 1000AD. These peoples shared common beliefs and cultures that adapted over time and locality. There are similarities between all of the recorded beliefs, although fragmented, but it must be remembered local deities were not shared, only the great gods have links but again it would be a mistake to assume Woden is completely similar to Odin or to his Celtic cognate, all the gods have functions, they are not necessarily consistent with each cognate. It must also be remembered the length of time we are talking about and the contact and influences of those they come into contact with and in some areas co-existed with. There are bound to be degrees of differences with a original commonality. Although we may see this as of minimal importance as we attempt to put all these beliefs into a melting pot, to the people of that time their belief was just that, they were dedicated to THEIR gods.

In conclusion there is undoubted borrowing and sharing of myths, culture and symbols but it is not so simple to lump them all in together and have completeness. With study we are able to discern as to what fits and what are the anomalies. It takes time and effort but there are no simple answers because opinions differ and different theories work for some that don't for others. One anomaly would be Tyr, cognate to the Germanic Tiw but no Celtic cognate.
The Celts, Germanic tribes and Norsemen were well known to each other for many centuries through trade and warfare, as well as coexisting along borders and they migrated to the same lands. There is no doubt a borrowing of myths and legends, just be careful not to create something that never was, it is a modern phenomenon to have esoteric beliefs, unless of course you are comfortable with doing that.


Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:08 pm
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