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Norse Gods and Tuatha De Danann 
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Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:46 pm
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Thank you M1000 for that very in depth post. It was a wonderful read. And no, I have no desire to create something that never was. I am simply trying to gain knowledge and understanding. Your post has given me both.


Last edited by RedValkyrie on Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:08 pm
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Last edited by RedValkyrie on Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:31 am
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Not sure what's funnier...

The fact hat you posted about your typo,
The fact that you didn't just go back and edit it,
Or the simple fact that it bothered you so much.

Either way, thanks for the laugh at your expense.

WINKY FACE


Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:34 am
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Last edited by RedValkyrie on Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:39 am
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If it's any consolation at all, I read it and didn't even notice that it was uncharacteristic of your normally highly articulate writing style. So many people I know use that phrase that apparently it no longer even registers with me.


Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:46 pm
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Tyrsman- Being a Texan with a southern accent tends to make a girl want to articulate well at all times, due to the stereotype that southerners are ignorant because we "sound funny."

Let's get back to the original topic of my post, because I have been researching and I am finding so much information that I want to share.

Let me preface this by saying, please remember that I am on a spiritual journey to find my religion, so the origins of religions fascinates me and any questions about Odinism are strictly for educational purposes and are meant with the highest regard.

It was suggested that I look into Odinism and Hinduism, so I did, and found information about similarities between deities...but that just led to more questions. I have a ridiculously curious nature...perhaps I was a cat in a former life. Anyway, like I have stated before I was a Christian, and because I am so curious and had so many questions that could not be answered by the bible or my minister, I began to study on my own. I felt a desperate need to find the origins of my faith. It really wasn't difficult to find and I cannot understand why more people don't seek to learn everything they can about something as important as religion.

If you are familiar with the origins of the Abrahamic religions, you already know they are Sumerian. Abraham was the son of a high ranking priest who worshiped Enlil (and a host of lesser gods in the Sumerian pantheon as well). Abraham did a little traveling and got things started on his own by putting his own spin on the religion. I know I am simplifying a slightly more complex story, but there is no need to delve further into this topic at this point. My reason for telling you this is that after the suggestion was made to look into Hinduism I thought, "Why not go back even further than the Veddas?" You may be thinking that I can't go back further, that they are the oldest and original texts of Hinduism, and perhaps that is the case if you are looking at only what Hinduism is today (besides being very complicated even among its own followers).

Now...I am still studying this so be patient with me, but what I have found so far leads me to believe that Hinduism also originated from the Sumerian pantheon. Some of the gods and goddesses still have the same name in Hinduism that they did in the Sumerian belief of the Children of An. Which bring me back to the Tuatha de Danann (the children of Danu=Anu=An) ...but I'll work out all of that later if anyone shows interest in it on the forum.

So basically, it appears that it is possible that Odinism, the Tuatha de Danann, and Hinduism all have their origins in Sumer, just like the Abrahamic religions. But of course that is the earliest known civilization we have found to date. Sort of. The temple of Gobekle Tepe in Turkey is the oldest religious temple archeologists have found. It is believe to be almost 12,000 years old. There is some speculation regarding the belief systems of the groups that created Gobekli Tepe, based on comparisons with other shrines and settlements. Scholars assume shamanic practices and suggests that the T-shaped pillars may represent mythical creatures, perhaps ancestors, whereas they see a fully articulated belief in gods only developing later in Mesopotamia, associated with extensive temples and palaces. This corresponds well with an ancient Sumerian belief that agriculture, animal husbandry, and weaving were brought to mankind from the sacred mountain Ekur by the Sumerian gods. So it seems as though there are a few thousand years of religion in between that we still know almost nothing about.

So what is the point of all of this? Honestly, I'm not sure why I feel the need to get to the source, but it seems to me that most of the religions we have today started in the same place and simply adapted and changed according to societal difference, agriculture, invasions and migrations. Something I already knew. So now what?

How do I choose?


Last edited by RedValkyrie on Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:11 pm
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This is definitely not my area of expertise and I truly appreciate the time and effort you and M1000 have taken to share your knowledge.

I can't offer much help in your studies, I would guess that the true origins of the these religions may be lost to time. We are left with some archaeological clues but are only left making speculative connections based on our interpretations.

I can possibly assist in determining "the point if all this" though. You've been gifted with a keen intellect and a drive to understand. You're not content with accepting things at face value, you want to get to the truth of the matter. Very good qualities.



(edited to correct typographical errors)


Last edited by Tyrsman on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:47 pm
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Cor blimey Red that's some post! You're welcome too, thank you for your kind words. So let us get theological!

There are differences to take into consideration, 'Eastern Mystery Religions' like the cults of Isis, Mithras and Dionysus and the universal religions of Christianity, Buddhism and Islam are essentially soteriological and eschatological. Soteriology means a belief that places significance in salvation. Eschatology means the belief in a end of world theory, or more specifically the end the human race on Earth. To put it more simply these religions are 'world-rejecting'. Germanic religions do not fall into this category, neither did the Greek or Roman, they were folk religions and 'world-accepting'.

I'll try and elaborate, excuse me if this long-winded. Germanic folk religions are not universal religions but are ethnocultural, the religious core is the folk community, expressed through ritual that celebrates its relationship with its own exclusive gods and promotes a strong sense of in-group identification and loyalty. In contrast to a universal religion which is concerned with individual salvation by conforming to a doctrine. Germanic peoples worldview was religiopolitical, magicoreligious, heroic and structured by the thews of each tribe, unlike an anomic universal belief. Anomic/anomie means when society provides little or no moral guidance. In terms of Christianity the worldview dismisses magic, heroism and the political viewpoint is set by god i.e. the Ten Commandments, a universal ethical code.

Robert Bellah wrote about world-rejecting religions: 'the phenomenon of religious rejection of the world characterised by an extremely negative evaluation of man and society and the exaltation of another realm of reality as alone true and infinitely valuable'. He then continues, commenting on world-accepting religions: 'concerned with the maintenance of personal, social and cosmic harmony and with attaining specific goods - rain, harvest, children, health - as men have always been. But the overriding goal of salvation that dominates the world-rejecting religions is almost absent in primitive religion, and life after death tends to be a shadowy semi-existence in some vaguely designated place in the single world'.

I think I will stop there! What I wanted to illustrate is that no matter if, a big if, all religion originated from one place is that it adapted. Now you have the choice of adopting one of two kinds of religious beliefs. The issue we have within Odinism/Asatru is that both beliefs are prescribed to. This is because of Snorri Sturluson and his Edda written in the thirteenth century, over two centuries after his native Iceland converted to Christianity. It should also be stated that the universal religion of Christianity had for centuries, primarily since Roman acceptance of the new religion, began to influence and shape the older beliefs as the new religion co-existed alongside the folk religions. I should also mention the brutality of the likes of Charlemange to forcing the new religion on those who rejected conversion. Hardly the teachings of Christ!

That said, perhaps Valhalla was a warriors paradise in the late Viking Age but initially it was the battlefield, Simek points to it initially being an Irish/Celtic belief. I think that would be a better explanation rather than just Snorri's imagination. Here we are seeing a shift from what was world-accepting to world-rejecting, the influence of the new religion perhaps. Personally I prescribe to the primitive belief Bellah describes. I'm not saying that I am right and others are wrong, it just fits better with my reconstruction of 6th/7th century Anglo Saxon beliefs. Valhalla is not attested to in any OE sources which means it has no relevance in my beliefs and probably backs up the theory that it was either a later belief or incorporated into the Norse mythology by Snorri. I think in terms of modern Odinism most prescribe to Valhalla being a viable afterlife destination, but then most Odinists come via the Viking interest/ancestry route. Like I said there is no wrong or right, but by accepting Valhalla it is worth considering what is written in the first three paragraphs of this post.

I know a Hindu man fairly well and we've had some very interesting theological discussions over many cups of tea, there have been many instances when I've seen similarities in practice but funnily enough afterlife has never cropped up, I will put that right next time the kettle is put on when we're in each others company. I hope this has given you some more food for thought in your quest Red.


Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:12 am
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M1000,

Wow...thank you so much for posting. You have helped me more than most people and all my research put together. As for me , I choose world-accepting. I don't have much time to write at the moment but I had to at least take the time to Thank You for sharing with me.

What a wonderful way to start my day! :-)


Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:00 am
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Thanks to you for making an interesting thread, I don't post too regularly or readily, but this thread is thought provoking and challenging.


Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:47 pm
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Wonderful. Love it. Just a thought - my actual name is spelled differently in different cultures and languages, celtic with the most beautiful accent but sounds very silmilar to the english spelling but, it's always, just me. Different interpretations of my appearance and actions dependant on culture. Some think me bold or simplistic or cleaver. Perspective, experiences and time frames. When christians look at Odin's " today" identity, our lore disguised, they see Santa Claus.


Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:29 am
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M1000- I have chosen my path and I want to discuss it with you, but I must have copied your email incorrectly because it keeps bouncing back to me. If you see this and wouldn't mind, please post it again and I will check back frequently so I can copy it correctly this time and you can delete it quickly. For my own safety I do not wish to share my email on this post.

Tyrsman- I had some heartbreaking moments with my Christian family this past week that I would like to share with you and get your advice on. Should I post it here (our conversations about this can get personal, but I don't mind posting it here if you don't mind posting here) or if you feel comfortable sharing your email with me, we can discuss our similar situations privately?

Vanir21- your post put a huge smile on my face. If you could see my house at Christmas time you would probably smile too at how many Santa Claus figurines I have in every room (perhaps I am naturally drawn to Odinism after all). I've collected them for years. I have always loved him. :-)


Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:40 pm
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There is nothing that I mind discussing here so I will leave it completely up to you as far as how you want to proceed. I am anxious to hear about the discussion with your family, that you describe it as "heartbreaking" is saddening.

My email, that is not linked to any other account and is used only for this forum, is tyrsman@ymail.com


Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:08 am
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Last edited by M1000 on Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:19 pm
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Tyrsman- you've got mail.

M1000- got it and got it right this time. :) will be in touch soon. Hope you are well.


Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:19 pm
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I too agree that there are strong connections between the TD and the Norse.

They both fought the Fomorians, a strange dark race that I believe took place in deep pre-history.

The Annals of the four Masters speaks of battles and so on.

Even advanced technology is said to have been wielded by the advanced tribe of the Tuatha De Danann, something that parallels the Norse mythos!


Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:12 am
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Thoughts and speculations-
Background- Irish/ Kelt war with Fomorian's Spear throwing Champion, was called Lugh right. An Odin comparison. Thor's hair is red. There is only one way to be genetically connected to red features. So all red attributes came from same source. And an earth Goddess that Odin chose for mother of a very special child. A red headed one.
Summarian texts-After A female Inanna, of Anunnaki race, grand daughter of Anu, took claim of a part of the earth after being jilted of what thought she should've had. Started her own race with her bloodline because she stole the information records from the genetisist who made the Adams, her uncle Enki or Ea means Earth. Read her story by Sitchin
Freja, Freya, the wild one of the Vanir, closely resembles story of what happened in Inanna's life.
She got the golden necklace from the briggismen. It changed everything for her. Could it have been a link to knowleadge? Was she a Consort of Odin, the mother of Thor ? He was strongest of the Gods from a giant goddess or Gia meaning earth? Geneticially engineered ? Hmmm.

My trip will include chats with a german historian friend of mine. Should have more when I return.


Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:32 pm
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Oh how we would love to have the one correct history of our beginings, but all we may have is the persective of those who recorded or orally passed on information per their understanding and those who studied and conjecture from that. I started out looking into the history of my heritage and found way more than I could've imagined. I wanted to know what I had in my genectics to give to this life.
I thought I would find strong Celtic lines of the Spear and instead found my beginnings in the Finns of Lapland.
I also found what most of us will find, that we have the capability for much and it's our decision what to do with it. I find the way of Odin with the most promise for a future for mankind and the creatures of our realm. If we are not here to stand up, we will be slaughtered like the sheep. So for that, what ever my genes may give me, I decide to fight for freedom to choose, that i might step up at the times that matter. Fight with wisdom and then without fear. May the red in my blood and the Sami of my Grammy take me beyond all fears. I wish the same for all of you, whatever brings you!


Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:48 am
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Follow up to July 14th post, about 38 minutes into video below. Just interesting.

Secrets in Plain Sight 1-23



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L777RhL_Fz4


Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:17 am
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and this was interesting to me. I hadn't made the connection. My Odinist Grandfather was Danish.


http://www.britam.org/traditions3.html


Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:38 pm
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