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My Speculation of the Aesir 
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Hail Brothers & Sisters,

As has been stated here that we are part of the Indo-European language culture and that Germanic people migrate out of the Middle East centuries ago and traveled to Northern Europe.

Our Gods and Goddesses lead us out of the region for a reason and to Northern Europe, why?

To save us from famine, war; to preserve our ancestors and their culture from what?

Some of you have stated that our Gods and Goddesses are the same as the Hindu's, Greeks and Romans; pointing out similarities between the different religious structures. Saying Odin is Zeus or Apollo also saying that Odin is also the Hindu God (?) by another name. Brother Alfvin believes Odin to be the God of Abraham possibly even Jesus.

I do not agree with these theories I believe our Gods and Goddesses are our Gods and Goddesses and not the Greek, Roman or Hindu Gods nor the God of the Christians or Muslims. I do not believe in a chosen race or people or that any one culture is better then another, but that each is different not better.

Our Gods lead our ancestors away from that area for a reason and away from the other cultures and their Gods and brought them to a land they could call their own and preserve their culture and honor the Aesir in their own ways.

That there are similarities, yes I agree. That they are the same Gods and Goddesses I do not agree.


Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:11 am
Hael Brother,

You mean like Yahwe led the Jews out of Egypt to Israel kind of thing? Sort of a chosen people?

Alfvin


Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:23 am
Mel1721L wrote:
Hael Brother,

You mean like Yahwe led the Jews out of Egypt to Israel kind of thing? Sort of a chosen people?

Alfvin

No not a chosen people, but for some reason our ancestors left the area and migrated to Nothern Europe. What I ask is why?


Last edited by Haggis on Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:58 am
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Regarding the gods, remember that all Odinists say that the Eddas preserve information about the gods in the purest form.

We may identify Odin with another god, but we believe those other pantheons contain only corrupt versions of our legends.

I will read Greek mythology, but I do not view it as reliable resource to understand our gods.


Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:53 pm
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Haggis said,

Quote:
No not a chosen people, but for some reason our ancestors felt the area and migrated to Nothern Europe. What I ask is why?



Because that is how the gods work with men. Did we choose our gods, or they us?

Alfvin


Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:06 am
Haggis wrote:
Mel1721L wrote:
Hael Brother,

You mean like Yahwe led the Jews out of Egypt to Israel kind of thing? Sort of a chosen people?

Alfvin

No not a chosen people, but for some reason our ancestors left the area and migrated to Nothern Europe. What I ask is why?



I think a better questionwould be "When" the actual answer to this could lead to answering the "Why".


Wassail!


Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:57 pm
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"Our ancestors" also could mean either biological or culturo-linguistic ancestors. When looking at the gods, I think it is clear that the latter is more important than the former. And for that we have an answer-- during the Bronze Age and this was the set of migrations which lead to the divergence of the Indo-Iranian, Germanic, Celtic, Italic, Greek, etc. peoples from the original Indo-European stock culture, language, and religion. (BTW, this drift makes the question of how separate Thorr, Indra, and Zeus really are somewhat problematic. I personally don't believe in amoebic gods, nor do I believe that one can ignore the fact that these gods clearly have a common root.)

My own theory is that it had to do with the invention of the spoked wheel and the way this revolutionized the culture and economy. Note that the spoked wheel or related symbols (including the swastika and derivative symbols like the equilateral cross) are extremely common in Bronze-Age Indo-European iconography across the entire area. Such a technological revolution would have both improved mobility and increased population pressures. I think that these then probably lead to changes in the pantheon (the War of Functions theme) and then migrations.

The Germanic peoples also have a number of problematic elements in this analysis however. Prior to the Migration Age, we know very little about their religion and language. During the Migration Age, however, there was extensive contact with Iranian peoples such as the Sarmatians and Scythians. This contact and the clear influence from both Iranian and Celtic sources pose a number of comparative problems that I don't think that most comparative mythologists take into account properly. (For example, it is clear that the Germanic peoples adopted trousers and a horseback, as opposed to chariot, culture from the Iranian peoples.) So again the Iranians have links to the Germanic gods which may surface from time to time and they are another important migration.

In short, I would divide up the Germanic roots into Germanic-branch Indo-European, then Old Continental Celtic, Iranian, and lastly Roman.


Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:38 pm
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No longer a member


Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:50 am
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OdinBrotherhood wrote:
Regarding the gods, remember that all Odinists say that the Eddas preserve information about the gods in the purest form.

We may identify Odin with another god, but we believe those other pantheons contain only corrupt versions of our legends.

I will read Greek mythology, but I do not view it as reliable resource to understand our gods.


I don't think it is a matter of corrupt versions (though I suspect that Hesiod is more corrupt than Homer). I think the larger issue is that both pantheons were subject to drift but both contain within themselves a complete mythological system, just as both peoples used complete linguistic systems derived from the same root. I don't believe that Greek is a corrupted Germanic language (though certainly some folks like Sigfried Adolf Kummer made such a claim).

Comparative studies are important, but it is also important to keep the comparisons in context. Societies adapt to their natural and technological environments and both language and myth soon follow.


Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:33 pm
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Hael Brother einhverfr,

Surely if we look at other mythologies from similar cultures to our own, we can fill in some of the missing gaps in our own mythology, depending on the reliance of the source?

Alfvin


Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:05 pm
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Alfvin--

I find comparative studies to be very illuminating, not so much in terms of filling missing gaps but in terms of shedding light on various stories.

For example, if one compares the heroic stories of Perseus and Sigurd, one finds a common structure. When one expands this outward, one can find that this structure relating to serpent power, the head, slaying monsters, and power is well represented throughout the Indo-European world but is particularly well developed among the Germanic peoples.

For filling missing gaps, I think that the first thing to do is to become well established in our tradition and then re-building themes we find useful from other traditions so that they form a seemless portion of our tradition. So that is yet another aspect but is less a comparative one and more of an adaptive one. Prior to the internalization of writing, this is the way it works, however. We see this in gods adapted by the Greeks prior to Hesiod for example. This sort of organic development is possible even today but is far harder because of the difficulty in both grasping our tradition fully and in re-attaining the orality mindset that would allow us to do this.


Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:20 pm
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OdinBrotherhood wrote:
Regarding the gods, remember that all Odinists say that the Eddas preserve information about the gods in the purest form.

We may identify Odin with another god, but we believe those other pantheons contain only corrupt versions of our legends.

I will read Greek mythology, but I do not view it as reliable resource to understand our gods.



Re the Eddas, i get the impression from Mirabello's book, that they are refering only to the Poetic Edda, not Snori's prose. is this the stand of the Odin Brotherhood?
Also, Rydberg's hypothesis is that the people of the Aesir originated in northern Europe, then at the weather change ( onset of last ice ages), they migrated down toward the Black Sea, and then again moved north. This seems in agreement with the discussion of the three ages of man in mirabello's work. What is the odin Brotherhood's understanding here?


Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:49 pm
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The Odin Brotherhood uses the Eddaic Verses only as sacred texts.

Other writings, such as the Prose Edda and the Ynglinga Saga, are consulted, but they are not viewed with the same reverence. Saxo, I should point out, is rejected as unreliable.

For the record, note that I use Snorri's work as my avatar.


Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:21 pm
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OdinBrotherhood wrote:

For the record, note that I use Snorri's work as my avatar.



Why, may I ask?


Also, what do you think of Rydberg's theories? Did the Brotherhood know about him during his time?


Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:39 am
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I use the Prose Edda as my avatar here simply because I love the book!


Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:45 pm
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I used to think that Snorri was intentionally trying mislead the church authorities by saying the gods were men that had become deified to get them to look the other way and let him and others slip things under a vinear for a better day. But, you know the story they were heroes of Troy? Well I doubt that, but you know that the Minoans had two alphabets, Linear A and Linear B. Linear A has never been translated, but it looks suspiciously a lot more like Runes. So, that made me a little more open to the idea that there is a certain Hellenic or Pre-Hellenic connection that has been lost to history. The successive waves of Dorians, Ionians, Hellas, and later Macedonians who swept away the Peliagan (Pre-Hellenic, lierally means "sons of Pelias," the king who stole the kindom Thessaly and murdered Jason's father in Argonautica) peoples are thought to be possibly Celtic or Germanic groups. I believe it was Herodotus who first mentioned the Celts in the written record. He called them the Keltoi and placed them as being in Greece at the time.


Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:33 pm
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In the beginning of the Prose Edda, Snorri does indeed innclude intentional disinformation about the gods. This, I would argue, was a ruse. If he did not include such material, his book would not have survived.

Snorri was clever.

If I were trying to preserve our lore in Saudi Arabia today--or in Taliban Afghanistan--I would use similar tricks. When the penalty for paganism is death, honest simpletons do not last long, and the future learns nothing from them....


Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:34 am
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Well said on this point, OBL


Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:50 pm
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Thank you, Coyote.

In our soft world, we often forget what real persecution is. We think being "fired" from a job or being "ridiculed" is "persecution.

In earlier times, when our forefathers lived, eyes were cut out, tongues were ripped out, humans were flayed alive....


Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:30 pm
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Odin is actually Hermes in the Greek Tradition.


Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:03 pm
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