View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:28 pm



Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
The Antiquity of the Elder Futhark 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:30 am
Posts: 869
Location: Vinland (Pennsylvania, USA)
By Far, the Elder Futhark speak best to me. I have a set I have made and galdored, that has been a wonderful resource for me. It is my understanding that the Elder Futhark is the oldest one, and I beleive there fore, the ones Odin Spied while hanging on the world tree. As noted below, I am currently looking into the younger futhark as a new resource, but the elder runes speak volumes more to me. Does anyone else have any thoughts regarding the earliest runes that were the original runes? Perhaps some long lost variation existed that even these elder runes were based upon?


Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:50 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Posts: 14
Location: England
I have to agree with you on the eldar as it is what i favour, however it being the the set from the havamal im not so sure remember the eldar furthark contains 24 runes and the havamal only 18? its something ive researched at length but is still a mystery at this early stage would be interesting to know if anyone else has looked into this?another of the many mysteries of odin which only the worthy will discover


Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:02 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:30 am
Posts: 869
Location: Vinland (Pennsylvania, USA)
Post 
Correct!

I was not thinking of that when I posted, I was looking at the oldest Runes. Perhaps there is a far earlier set? Know doubt back to the Indo European black sea region. Great point!


Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:43 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:35 pm
Posts: 14
Location: England
i have also thought the 18 could refer to rune staves, combinations of runes which could be individual runes from the eldar combined with eachother?there are many possibilities i hope that time will reveal the correct answer to us, remember only the weak want answers given to them on a plate or in a book shall i say (christians,muslims etc etc)


Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:58 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:30 am
Posts: 869
Location: Vinland (Pennsylvania, USA)
Post 
There is an old saying that the outcome of the quest, is not the true goal, but teh Journey to get there. I agree. Freya Aswynn has suggested that thre are combinations of runes noted in the Havamal if memory serves me correct. Perhaps you may be on to something!


Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:02 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 676
Location: Vinland, (Chelan WA)
Einherjar24 wrote:
i have also thought the 18 could refer to rune staves, combinations of runes which could be individual runes from the eldar combined with eachother?there are many possibilities i hope that time will reveal the correct answer to us, remember only the weak want answers given to them on a plate or in a book shall i say (christians,muslims etc etc)


Probably not. The textual evidence surrounding the 18 songs suggests that they are probably magical formulae or charms, probably related to the 9-fold division of the Worlds.

I suspect that many of them were words of power, which were used to indexically reference other sacred material.

For example. the second one to me appears to be Limr ("limb") which is probably somewhat related to the Old Germanic formula of Linu ("linnen").

There is some thinking that the Elder Futhark may have originated from a magic-square manipulation of a hypothetical Greek aphabet modified by substituting several Latin letters. If true, this would suggest that the First Runemaster was knowledgable both about the Greek language but also Greek magical thought and the Latin language (for example, F instead of Phi). At the same time this individual would have had to adapt the resulting system so that it was uniquely Germanic and *very* conservative as regards Indo-European formulas (the beginning and end of the Elder Futhark seem analogous to the PIE formula of "goods and chattels" referencing the totality of one's wealth). This is thus a powerful example of the ability to take foriegn magical concepts and create something truely inigenous from the synthesis of these ideas.


Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:40 pm
Profile WWW
The runes evolved differently where different languages were spoken, remembering they also were used for mundane writing, it doesn't mean one is more authentic than another or that only one FUTHARK or FUTHORK is the genuine article. I too use the Elder Germanic although I have looked at the Anglo Saxon FUTHORC too, but never found it really spoke to me.


Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:43 pm
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:30 am
Posts: 869
Location: Vinland (Pennsylvania, USA)
Post 
Excellent thoughts all! Thanks for the information.


Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:22 pm
Profile WWW
Hael Brothers,

Guess what, the Norsemen never to my knowledge carved a blank rune. Any thoughts on this modern trend seemingly started by Ralph Blum? An obvious Nordic name there.

Mel


Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:11 pm
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:28 am
Posts: 51
Post 
I have recently begun carving myself a set of Elder Futhark runes, and am wondering is there anything i should do once done carving and staining them. is there anything else i should do. Should i ask Odin to endow them with his magic, and if so how should i ask? Should i simply ask him to guide my runes or is their a ritual?


Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:31 am
Profile
Hael Oreynn,

There is no dogma in Odinism, there is no real set way of doing things, so don't worry, you can't really do it wrong. This if it helps, is the way I do mine.

After finding the tree I will use, I make a rune circle round the tree and myself and sign the hammer to the four directions as well as above and below, so making a sphere of protection. (I do this in most rights including blots). I ask the tree for the gift of it's branch then cut the branch in as few cuts as I can manage. After that I cut myself, usually just a finger and put my blood on the wound I made on the tree, giving it some of my life force in exchange for the trees.

I go home and cut and shape the staves. I don't make discs but thin strips of wood about 4 inches long. I cut the rune into the end of the stave, thus allowing a reverse position of a rune whick looks the same right way up or up side down. Each rune I colour with my own blood and I sing the runes galdr whilst cutting and staining. Therefore infusing each stave with the appropriate rune energy. (By the way I sand them smooth after cutting the staves). I then consectate them, one at a time in earth, air, fire and water then I hold each one in my hand and breath into it giving it it's life. Finally each one is coated in linseed oil to help preserve the wood.

I cast them onto a square of plain white silk but I don't do it often. I may ask the Norns for their guidance but not always.

Mel


Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:39 am
Post 
Hail Mel,

I thank you for your ritual of consecrating the runes. I was thinkg of makink myself a set and the idea I had come up with to consecrate them was similar to yours.

Does anyone else have a different ritual of consecrating the runes?


Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:44 am
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:28 am
Posts: 51
Post 
Thank you Mel your post was most helpful.


Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:00 pm
Profile
Hael Brothers,

Thank you a lot of it was inspired by Edred Thorssons Futhark to be honest, there are some minor differences and personal touches.

Mel


Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:10 pm
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:30 am
Posts: 869
Location: Vinland (Pennsylvania, USA)
Post 
Hail Mel!

Thank you for the ritual. I too am a fan of Edred Thorrson's works. I hope you are able to make it nack to the board soon in your current situation.

Your thoughts are always welcome. I shall drop a line soon. I have been rather busy and dealing with the black plague so to speak of a flu.


Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:51 pm
Profile WWW
Hael Ravenwolf,

I wondered where you'd gone. Did you get a reply from that Spanish E Mail address?

Mel


Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:54 pm
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:30 am
Posts: 869
Location: Vinland (Pennsylvania, USA)
Post 
Hail Brother!

Yes indeed! I will try to send a reply later today.


Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:56 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 676
Location: Vinland, (Chelan WA)
The Elder Futhark was development which seems likely to have occurred somewhere between 150BCE and 50BCE, based on the idea that finds 100-200 years before our earliest find may hae been lost.

The immediate anticedant appears to be a mixture of Greek letters, Latin letters, and ideas of Greek mathematics and magic relating to letters. However, these were all transformed beyond recognition and synthesized with the Germanic tradition to the point that they are beyond recognition.

There are probably no older Runic writing systems, but remember that Indo-European magic (whether Germanic, Celtic, or Vedic) was primarily oral and poetic and the staves were an add-on and reference system to that oral tradition.


Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:58 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 3:25 am
Posts: 12
Anonymous wrote:
Hael Oreynn,

There is no dogma in Odinism, there is no real set way of doing things, so don't worry, you can't really do it wrong. This if it helps, is the way I do mine.

After finding the tree I will use, I make a rune circle round the tree and myself and sign the hammer to the four directions as well as above and below, so making a sphere of protection. (I do this in most rights including blots). I ask the tree for the gift of it's branch then cut the branch in as few cuts as I can manage. After that I cut myself, usually just a finger and put my blood on the wound I made on the tree, giving it some of my life force in exchange for the trees.

I go home and cut and shape the staves. I don't make discs but thin strips of wood about 4 inches long. I cut the rune into the end of the stave, thus allowing a reverse position of a rune whick looks the same right way up or up side down. Each rune I colour with my own blood and I sing the runes galdr whilst cutting and staining. Therefore infusing each stave with the appropriate rune energy. (By the way I sand them smooth after cutting the staves). I then consectate them, one at a time in earth, air, fire and water then I hold each one in my hand and breath into it giving it it's life. Finally each one is coated in linseed oil to help preserve the wood.

I cast them onto a square of plain white silk but I don't do it often. I may ask the Norns for their guidance but not always.

Mel


Hail! I am new to Odinism and the Odin Brotherhood and am self initiated. I was curious to the meaning of some of the words used in this explanation such as consectate, what a "stave" is exactly, and how to stain. I am just reading this so I do not know whether this is explained later on but i would really like to know.


Fri May 22, 2009 4:43 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:20 am
Posts: 6
Post 
I second the problems encountered by Myrddin Draconia. I believe 'consectate' was meant to say 'consecrate', but apart from that I too have little understanding of staves and staining and singing and doing whatever you meant about earth, air, fire and water. Anyone able to expand upon this for us newcomers?


Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:57 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.