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The Jotunbok: Working with the Giants by Raven Kaldera 
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:33 pm
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Sorry, I was unable to fit the full title in the subject line. The full title is "The Jotunbok: Working with the Giants of the Northern Tradition. Here is the link http://www.amazon.com/The-Jotunbok-Working-Northern-Tradition/dp/1847287298/ref=cm_rdp_product


I have not read the book. Having said that it seems to me that the idea of 'working' with Frost, Stone, or Fire Giants who are indifferent to mankind and best and deeply hostile at worst is the height of stupidity.

One thing that surprised me after reading the book reviews, the one reviewer who found the book objectionable for the same reasons I did evidently stirred up a hornet's nest and was roundly criticized to his opinion.

Has anyone read this book? If so, what did you think of it?


Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:18 pm
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Haven't read it, and I don't want to. Seems like a very dangerous book for uninitiated people to stumble across.


Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:33 am
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Type the authors name into your search engine & make your own decision


Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:37 pm
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I have not read the book, but I read through his site. I agree in the danger of such work. He seems to lightly view things. I respect and honor such forces because I honor the gods. For example, Odin, Tyr, Freyr or Thor seek me as equal, so I aspire to them and devote my life. On that level I embrace their partners Loki, Fenrir, Surtr, and the giants.

Without their strength and lessons of wisdom, such a path is only destined to pain and destruction. I believe they have a place here among brothers, but not in isolation to a novice.


Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:28 pm
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This seems like someones trying to create a satanism for odinism...... huh...


Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:44 am
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I have read this book and I defend it as a valuable and important resource to Odinism. I recommend it highly, and I do NOT advise people shunning potential knowledge and refusing to even read a text before offering an INFORMED opinion of it.

An unread book does not an informed opinion make for those who will not even turn a single page of its content.

We have no Satans- and the small clans of Northern Europe still worship Aesir, Vanir, as well as Jotunr (even if it just to calm them).

This book was closer to the teachings of my small ethnic group as well as others I know who were "born into" natural Odinism from Europe rather than the New Reconstructionism in the United States.

(I was browsing this forum looking for another book on which I have a question).


Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:31 am
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Location: Vinland
This is how he describes himself:

Raven Kaldera is a Northern-Tradition Pagan shaman, herbalist, astrologer, transgendered intersexual activist, homesteader, and founding member of the First Kingdom Church of Asphodel. He is also a teacher of BDSM spirituality, and an educator and presenter on many topics.

BDSM refers to bondage and S & M sex. Asphodel refers to the plant that grows in the Greek "hades."


Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:07 am
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Oddly enough- if He's Odinlike in real life and a man of riddles- I would look past his description even if he said he was a pretty pink pony. I realized years ago that I know nothing about this man but his writing....and I am rather certain his parents didn't name him "Raven Kaldera"- and the stories seem to have a "sensational" feel that seems unreal and more rumor and gossip than truth.

Who is to say it's not a show to weed out the idiots? The material within has a variety of authors, not him alone. However, I see no issue unless his actions are indeed harmful to people, but I do not know enough to say.

I find this is a newer trend- compilation- since so many Odinist writers are bloggers rather than traditional published authors.

For that matter- I accepted an invite to contribute to a compilation book based on my blog topic. There are at least three compilations I know of right now in-progress via some Llewellyn competition from Britain that embraces more left-hand ideaology as well as the basic texts.


Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:56 am
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This (and his other) book(s) has been suggested to me a few times now. I had never really looked in on him. His "about me" page is creepy imo. I will still check out his book sense it was repeatedly recommended to me by another Seiðr practitioner who I have a lot of respect for. I'll write a little opinion piece on it afterwards.


Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:33 am
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Vitki wrote:
This (and his other) book(s) has been suggested to me a few times now. I had never really looked in on him. His "about me" page is creepy imo. I will still check out his book sense it was repeatedly recommended to me by another Seiðr practitioner who I have a lot of respect for. I'll write a little opinion piece on it afterwards.



That would be great!


Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:51 am
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A while back I said I was going to buy this book and give it a review. I just bought it and will start it when it gets here. I just wanted to post an update. I am trying to not form an opinion against this author so my review is as unbiased as possible. So for now I'm not looking at reviews of his book(s) or of him as a person. Although I do not particularly enjoy the things he writes about himself either.


Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:22 am
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I find that information is never a bad thing. As such I have read a great many things.

When I was younger man my mentor suggested to me that I read the Bible (both testaments) as well as the Q'uran and the Torah.
He suggested this because the warrior is better prepared when knowing the mind of the foe. Then he suggested I read other works, like the Vedas, the Tao and Hagakure among many others. Why? because the works of the enlightened are even more powerful than knowing the roots of the enemy.

The Sagas and the Eddas came later and only strengthened the foundation of what I already knew.

In this modern time our access to information is unprecedented (at least as far as we know; the Vedas suggest that there have been other far more enlightened ages, as do suggestions from the meso-American and Asian archaeological records). As such there are so many interesting books, papers and even blogs we can get our hands on.

My suggestion is to never shun the idea of reading certain forms of literature. Only the weak minded fear the expression of opposing ideas.

I have read at least a half dozen of the Kaldera books. I have found them fascinating. Indeed I find him fascinating. He dares to walk where few others would tread and whether or not you might agree with him, you certainly should recognize his boldness.

Perhaps I differ from some, but I find that there is an atmosphere of almost christian-like behavior emerging in some Pagan communities. There seems to be this need to turn our backs on that which is different; to automatically exclude and possibly even deride those who don't fit into a specific orthodox framework. My friends this is dangerous thinking. It is the thinking of cattle or worse.

I wade into books, especially ones where the thinking is quite different from my own, with thoughts of Innocent-of-Conviction on my mind. Dare to stride in and take stock of the material. Do not ignore opportunities to learn, even if that means the knowledge comes from strange, foreign or even at times unsavory sources.

These are my thoughts on this matter.


Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:39 pm
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Fjolnir wrote:
I have read at least a half dozen of the Kaldera books. I have found them fascinating. Indeed I find him fascinating. He dares to walk where few others would tread and whether or not you might agree with him, you certainly should recognize his boldness.

Perhaps I differ from some, but I find that there is an atmosphere of almost christian-like behavior emerging in some Pagan communities. There seems to be this need to turn our backs on that which is different; to automatically exclude and possibly even deride those who don't fit into a specific orthodox framework. My friends this is dangerous thinking. It is the thinking of cattle or worse.

These are my thoughts on this matter.


I agree in the general sense that knowledge is power, and the more sources one is familiar with, the better. I have found MANY times that the light bulbs which come together to cause a paradigm shift are the result of minutiae from numerous sources (like individual statements/ideas) coming together like a small section of a jigsaw puzzle that you are trying to fit with the greater completed portion.

I am also in strong agreement that there tends to be a lot of "christian" or "abrahamic" thinking rife in many Odinist and pagan communities. It is one reason I have an extremely hard time putting too much energy and personal resources into any one (or more) communitites. Honestly, for a large part most people cannot be blamed (initially) for the aforementioned because I think it is safe to say that for a majority of us, that type of thinking was what we were brought up with. Even for those who have been able to shed most of the baggage, many have hang-ups and conscious or unconscious remnants of those paradigms deeply ingrained in them. For myself, I have found that these are often the most difficult aspects to identify, digest and move on from.

However, the caveat is that I have found that there ARE some things that perhaps are considered to be 'signature" elements of abrahamic thinking, that are actually spot on, if not (which is frequent) for the reasons that are present within those traditions. There are many things that I have come full circle on. Things that during my journey I came to reject outright, but then over the course of a decade(s) or more have come to completely 'non-abrahamic' conclusions/reasons for supporting. The most important principle I have come to understand when dealing with this type of thing, is that various dogmas may have modern (or not so modern) bases for their discriminations (opinions/values) that seem entirely unreasonable, "passe", or any manner of "ism", however, likely had very pragmatic or naturalistic roots which were subsequently politicized or 'socialized'.

On a note of discrimination as a general concept, it is only because we have the ability to discriminate that we have survived as a people. It is only in particularly tumultuous times that discrimination of seemingly ANY SORT (eg. what is safe and what is not safe, vs what 'should be' vs. responsibility/sensibility) becomes some sort of negative idea. In fact, based on my own interpretation of the history of western civilization(s), I can't help but come to the conclusion that in many cases downfalls were preceded or accompanied by a loss in the ability or will to discriminate.

As for Kaldera, I do have a couple of publications in my personal library, however admittedly, the last time I read them were during my early formative years and I did not understand many of the concepts at that time. I have not revisited them as I have a lifetime's worth of material to work through as it is. Perhaps one day I will revisit them.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox.


Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:07 pm
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I have GOT to get a tablet. Doing this from my phone is so inconvenient.

I want to piggyback on Stigandrmelrakki said, "knowledge is power, the more sources you know the better". I want to add caution to this. I was raised by my Pagan mother mostly, for a short time with my christian father as well. Both sides of my family practice magic. I fell on the Pagan side obviously. My mother in order to give me a choice sent me to as many different religious tradition's services as she could find. When I was younger I thought that it was a great thing. I was exposed to many traditions and soaked up all the information quickly and deeply.

This happening before I was firmly rooted in my own tradition has been one of the biggest problems for me spiritually and magically. All the different meanings, symbolizations, rules, practices, traditions, folk beliefs, correspondences, and on and on, are all in my head constantly competing for attention and recognition. Over the years I have been able to address this and keep its negative influences to a minimum most of the time. But when I see the color blue for example, my mind will cycle through all the traditions I know and each of their correspondences. This can be very problematic, as most traditions are conflicting.

I have a few students who I have been teaching (magic) for a few years now. I have not let them look outside of their traditions still as of yet. I told them that you can learn a lot from other people's traditions. But you have to be firmly planted in your own first to not get lost in the information. You have to be able to take the parts or techniques that you can implement in your own practices without losing your own in the process.

Knowledge is power. But as with any power, it needs to be gained and used wisely.


Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:52 am
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I couldn't agree with you more Vitki. Too much, too fast, too young can be just as bad as being brought up in one very strict tradition, or being raised solely by television with NO tradition whatsoever. I personally think children and youth need strong, solid support systems, strong structure in moral, ethical and spiritual (not to mention educational) foundations from which to build their own identity. That is not to say absolutist or fundamentalist type foundations but I absolutely do not agree with exposing young people (or even adults who are "young" in their spiritual journey) to every tradition under the sun or no tradition at all in a well intentioned (or lazy in the case of the latter) but misguided attempt to "let them choose for themselves". Children (and teenagers for the most part frankly, though that is another discussion) are not equipped to handle such heady issues. Such exposure (or complete lack thereof) is a large part of why western civilization is where it is today and I mean that in the most negative sense possible.

This would be a great topic to discuss in it's own thread. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to start one at the moment.

Stigandr Melrakki
The Wanderer, White Fox


Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:57 pm
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